2018 Bulk Price

[BAP]

Well, us New Englander's don't need the government holding our hands for everything we do like the rest of the country wants. They don't call us "****ed Yankees" nothing. I come from the "Live Free or Die, Death is not the Worst of all Evils" state.

[DrTimPerkins]

So help me understand.....Vermont has their own "organic" syrup classification?

No, but Vermont NOFA is one of the primary certifying agencies in the area, so does the lion's share of the ORGANIC certification. There is currently no national level certification for organic maple syrup, but there are basic guidelines. You may find small variations in the rules from one certifier to another, but in general they are all quite similar.

I thought the new grading system was meant to standardize everyone, and do away with individuality if you will?

It does on many aspects of maple syrup grading....light transmission, density, clarity, grade names.

What is stopping a Vermont packer from covering their needs with less expensive Canada organic and still call it vermont?

That is against Vermont Maple Law. Only syrup made in Vermont from sap originating in Vermont can qualify as "Vermont" Maple Syrup.

We have had to be inspected to sell to a packer for at least 8 years now, maybe 10! We have always needed to be inspected (besides bulk), for any sales other than sales direct to the consumer (i.e., farm stand, farmers market, craft show, etc....). Wisconsin I believe is the strictest of any state or province as far as inspections are concerned. I have noticed many Wisco producers using it in their advertising, unlike Vermonters who are unable to b/c there is no standard for inspections there.

While there is no formal inspection program in Vermont, there are several other things. Until a few years ago there was a random shelf-inspection of maple syrup for quality. VT Agr employees could pull stock from store shelves to open and test, and pull it off sale if it didn't meet the quality control criteria. Currently there is only a "by complaint" inspection. There is a voluntary VMSMA Sugarhouse Certification Program (UVM PMRC was the very first sugarhouse inspected and certified). In addition, since many sugarmakers here are bulk producers, if you have a relationship with a packer, they will pop by at some point during the season and visit. While this is seemingly just a courtesy visit, it is also intended to have them look over your operation and see that it complies with good practices and lead reduction requirements.

[Tmeeeh]

In New Hampshire The Dept. of Ag requests that all sugar makers register with the state. This is not required. Inspections by the state happen if you voluntarily enroll in the NH Seal of Quality program. The rules are here start reading at the bottom of page 5. https://www.agriculture.nh.gov/publi...lity-rules.pdf.

The US National Organic Program (NOP) allows certified producers to use the USDA Certified Organic Seal. NOP does not do the inspections or issue certificates. The NOP allows certain entities to do the inspections and issue certificates. In NH the department of agriculture markets and food does the inspections. The NOP has minimum requirements for a producer to be certified. The NOP also allows the inspecting entity to add requirements above and beyond the NOP minimum requirements.

IN NH we are only required to meet the NOP minimum. I understand NOFA in VT and MOFGA in Maine are the certifying entities and that they do add additional requirements.

We are inspected for organic and again for the seal of quality.

We have a specialty store in Denmark that is buying our certified organic syrup. Denmark in part of the European Union. The EU is very strict about importing organic products from outside the EU. A electronically generated certificate of inspection from a certifying entity must accompany the shipment. The only acceptable electronic certificate is one generated by the EU agency TRACES NT. In addition Denmark requires additional paperwork and inspections from the store in Denmark if the product is organic. It is easy to import non organic un-inspected syrup into the EU!

[bobbyjake]

[QUOTE=DrTimPerkins;356814]That is against Vermont Maple Law. Only syrup made in Vermont from sap originating in Vermont can qualify as "Vermont" Maple Syrup.


Is this true or a "recent" change? Years ago, the sap could be non-Vermont as long as the syrup was made in Vermont to Vermont density and graded according to Vermont grade standards. The current definitions of "Product of Vermont" does not indicate the sap has to originate in/from Vermont either.

[DrTimPerkins]

Is this true or a "recent" change? Years ago, the sap could be non-Vermont as long as the syrup was made in Vermont to Vermont density and graded according to Vermont grade standards. The current definitions of "Product of Vermont" does not indicate the sap has to originate in/from Vermont either.

I believe it has been that way for quite some time. Unless I am mistake (which is possible), the only exception is sap from trees outside Vermont if a sugarbush is contiguous with (border) the state and some of the trees are on pipeline crosses the border. I don't think you can truck in sap (or you definitely can't truck in concentrate or syrup) from outside and process/pack it here and make it "Vermont" syrup, although some people have that common misconception.

[PCFarms]

I heard that Quebec made 110m pounds of syrup this year, compared to last year when they made 152m pounds and 148m lbs in 2016. Sales by the federation were about 118m pounds last year and 101m in 2016 - they should start to use up some of the reserve this year, keeping bulk prices stable. There will still be a lot in reserve though...

[DrTimPerkins]

There will still be a lot in reserve though...

The interesting question is...how much of that reserve is table-grade syrup (not commercial, buddy, damaged, etc.). Given the growth in syrup sales over the past 5 yrs, the level of "good" reserves could take quite a hit. Production during the 2019 season could become very important.

There is no question that 2018 is definitely going to prove the incredible importance of the Quebec strategic reserve in maintaining stable prices. As much as producers would like to see prices go up...I can tell you from experience, a spike in prices is far worse than low bulk prices for most people. Large-scale ingredient markets demand stable prices. If prices shoot up, those uses are reformulated to other sugars and they take maple syrup out, meaning that markets dry up, followed by a drop in bulk prices. Everybody loses in that scenario.

[markcasper]

I can tell you from experience, a spike in prices is far worse than low bulk prices for most people. Large-scale ingredient markets demand stable prices. If prices shoot up, those uses are reformulated to other sugars and they take maple syrup out, meaning that markets dry up, followed by a drop in bulk prices. Everybody loses in that scenario.

Very much truth to that, but the packers made out pretty well the past 3-4 years by acquiring syrup much cheaper and not dropping their prices accordingly.

[Haynes Forest Products]

What do you think the tipping point is. I'm thinking around $2.20-40 per lbs for grade A wholesale

[DrTimPerkins]

Very much truth to that, but the packers made out pretty well the past 3-4 years by acquiring syrup much cheaper and not dropping their prices accordingly.

It is hard to say precisely, because packers aren't marketing the syrup directly in many cases. They sell to wholesalers and retailers, so any margin is split between those parties. What I hear from packers is that the retailers (especially the big markets like Costco and Walmart) are squeezing them to lower their prices, but the stores are not dropping the retail price. So while having big reserves (in Quebec) is probably good for ingredient markets to keep prices stable, having an oversupply that retailers can see acts to drop the wholesale price they will pay to packers.

Then again, we have the U.S. $ to Canadian $ that still factors into it as well. It's all a bit murky at those levels....and the packers are obviously reluctant to discuss it because they don't want other packers to know their prices or customers.