Checking what VT sugar makers are doing

[GeneralStark]

Spud- You are making syrup now? I thought you sold sap.

I would never in a million years suggest that I could or would tell anyone else what they should do or how they should do it. If someone wants to make syrup until the leaves come out...that is their choice. Just sharing an opinion on a public forum.

Have you ever been to a workshop given by a bulk syrup buyer? Well I have and they always say the same thing. Don't keep making buddy syrup. Simple as that. The buyer I have sold commercial syrup says the same thing as well. He doesn't make any once the bud run starts despite having a market for it.

Sure we all make some but there is a big difference between making off flavored syrup during the season and continuing to intentionally make off syrup once the bud run has started. Sure packers buy it because that is part of the deal, and they find a market for it. I do too. But it is not good syrup and the suggestion that it is a key component of the maple syrup market is off base. Why do you think the Federation is trying to get rid of thousands of pound of it at super low prices?

I know several bulk producers that also sell retail and they all say the same thing. I set aside the best syrup for me and the rest goes to the packer. There is a difference between retail producers' perspectives than those of bulk producers.

The suggestion that people can't "afford" to not make off flavored syrup baffles me. Where do you get this idea? If you can't make your operation work making good syrup then you have a serious problem.

An interesting read on the subject: http://www.omspa.ca/news/

[Parker]

Wow.........

[PARKER MAPLE]

Well how about them peepers....... Lmao bet they wished they never came out after the last couple of days..

Still no buds in our woods here on the mountain. Cold very cold 12* this morning and 18* now. Seems to be like a short deep freeze. I would of never guessed it in beginning of April. Got to try and go out with a bang here at end of the week. Hoping for one last good run. Last boil we made DK-R not com, and flavor was very good still. I don't know what to expect when the sap starts to flow again, but better be ready. Drained and washed all tanks, drained and washed all pans, RO is cleaned and hopefully ready for the grand finally.
Good luck to all still in the game, never give up only comes once a year..
PARKER MAPLE

[Scribner's Mountain Maple]

General,
It sounds like telling others what they should be doing with their operations is exactly what you are saying. Adding that if a person couldn't "make it" in the way you choose to run your operation, that they are a failure. I think you are missing the big picture my friend. I do agree that buddy/off flavored syrup tastes like crap when compared to good flavored syrup. Not nearly as bad as birch syrup, which is worth gold, but that is another topic. My point is that maple syrup is still, and always will remain the worlds greatest natural sweetener. The majority of the good tasting syrup finds it's way to a bakery or onto someones table. The rest is not a useless commodity. There is a market for it, and I think it will continue to grow as food manufacturers continue seeking alternatives to high fructose corn syrup and bleeched cane sugar to sweeten their products. There is no doubt in my mind that I would rather my kids eat food that has been sweetened with an off flavored maple syrup vs. corn syrup.

I also guess I can't understand why a producer of any product would end the season early if they could still make a commodity that was worth money. That just doesn't make sense to me as I depend on this income to pay my bills and feed my family. Each barrel of off flavored syrup that I intend to produce (still making good flavored syrup now) will be worth 6-800 bucks. Lets say I make 6 barrels of this product. That is a lot of coin to leave on the table for a guy like me. Maybe your financial situation is different and you haven't a need for the extra money.

Ben

[spud]

Spud- You are making syrup now? I thought you sold sap.

I would never in a million years suggest that I could or would tell anyone else what they should do or how they should do it. If someone wants to make syrup until the leaves come out...that is their choice. Just sharing an opinion on a public forum.

Have you ever been to a workshop given by a bulk syrup buyer? Well I have and they always say the same thing. Don't keep making buddy syrup. Simple as that. The buyer I have sold commercial syrup says the same thing as well. He doesn't make any once the bud run starts despite having a market for it.

Sure we all make some but there is a big difference between making off flavored syrup during the season and continuing to intentionally make off syrup once the bud run has started. Sure packers buy it because that is part of the deal, and they find a market for it. I do too. But it is not good syrup and the suggestion that it is a key component of the maple syrup market is off base. Why do you think the Federation is trying to get rid of thousands of pound of it at super low prices?

I know several bulk producers that also sell retail and they all say the same thing. I set aside the best syrup for me and the rest goes to the packer. There is a difference between retail producers' perspectives than those of bulk producers.

The suggestion that people can't "afford" to not make off flavored syrup baffles me. Where do you get this idea? If you can't make your operation work making good syrup then you have a serious problem.

An interesting read on the subject: http://www.omspa.ca/news/

General- A properly run sugaring operation can and should be able to survive without making off tasting syrup. But why would they want to take 10 years to pay off their operation when they can do it in 7 by making off tasting syrup. Rule number one in sugaring is never believe what a packer tells you. Of corse they are going to tell you not to make the off tasting syrup (their not paying your mortgage). If they promoted off tasting syrup to all sugar makers then they truly would be swamped with syrup. There is only so much good quality syrup a packer can sell. The same is said for low grade syrup. Talk to people that have worked for a packer and they will tell you the off taste syrup sells and there is a market for it. Now if you were a large producer and you could make 50 barrels of off tasting syrup and the packer would pay you $1.75-2.00 LB would you do it? Of corse you would because that's $750-880 a barrel. That extra $40,000 in your pocket each year sure would be nice. You say your commercial buyer friend stops making syrup when the buds start to come out ( Despite having a market for it )? Either that's not a true statement or your friend is not very business smart. I can see him stop making low grade syrup if there was NO market for it but if there is a market then he really needs to get on board. I never said that off tasting syrup is a KEY Component to the syrup market but it is a useful one. The fake syrups in the stores that may have 2% real syrup in them would likely buy low grade syrup at a more affordable price. The same would be for any company using maple for flavoring. It has been said that if you use off tasting syrup to make maple sugar the off taste goes away. I cannot say for sure if that is true but I have heard this from more then one producer. So if a large producer can make and sell off tasting syrup and maybe earn an extra $40,000 doing it then he would be a fool not to. In life there are two kinds of people. Some take one step forward and two steps back and others take two step forward and one step back. It's safe to say the big producers selling buddy low grade syrup are two steps ahead of the others. I must say though General that I enjoy all your post and I look at you as a key asset to Maple Trader and to the Maple industry. I can tell you take great pride in the product you produce and my hat goes off to you for that. It's ok to disagree at times with fellow Traders. I'm glad you had a great season and it was fun reading your post along the way. Up here at the border I hope for another week or more before I call it quits. I like to pull my spouts once the leaves turn RED.

Spud

Spud

[GeneralStark]

Spud and Ben,

I'm sorry if my comments seem to be condescending towards your way of doing things or your perspective. That is not my intention at all. I take syrup quality from my own operation very seriously, and I am also concerned about it for the industry as a whole. I'm really not sure how aware people are of the broader issue with syrup quality in the industry as a whole. I generally post here from the perspective of a single retail producer but my involvement in the industry goes beyond that.

I appreciate your perspectives and once again I hope I have not overstepped the boundaries of respect. You can likely sense my passion related to this matter. I have met many Traders through they years and everyone I have met are wonderful people. We don't all agree on every matter but I appreciate civil debate and believe it is important for our industry and our society. I have not yet met you guys in person but I do hope to.

I would like to continue this conversation as I think it is very interesting and worthy of further debate. However in an effort to keep this thread more on topic for VT Sugarmakers to post what they are up to I will start a new thread in the next day or two. I hope you will join me there.

Good luck with the rest of your seasons! Even if you are going to be filling barrels with buddy syrup....

[ryebrye]

I assume everyone else who is still going is excited about this deep freeze? I really like that it isn't going to freeze Wednesday night in my area - it's going to take a full day for the trees to thaw out again - but Wed / Thurs / Friday should be a really good run.... then more freezes.

The even more extended forecast has a nice cycle of freeze / thaws going into April 15th. (Now is when I regret telling my wife "Sure, we can leave on vacation on April 14th, sugaring will be done by then this year since it's been such a warm year")

[WestfordSugarworks]

I assume everyone else who is still going is excited about this deep freeze? I really like that it isn't going to freeze Wednesday night in my area - it's going to take a full day for the trees to thaw out again - but Wed / Thurs / Friday should be a really good run.... then more freezes.

The even more extended forecast has a nice cycle of freeze / thaws going into April 15th. (Now is when I regret telling my wife "Sure, we can leave on vacation on April 14th, sugaring will be done by then this year since it's been such a warm year")

Very excited! A lot of people up my way have called it quits even though there still could be good sap tomorrow or Thursday. I think they got sour on Friday and Saturday. I'm ready for more and we will collect sap and sell (Jericho) and collect sap and boil (Westford) until they don't want sap or we can't make syrup. Hoping that when we turn pump on in Jericho we still are pulling above 28".

[Happy Hill Maple Farms]

First time posting on the trader. I've been reading about all your seasons through out the year and i've very much enjoyed reading everyone's posts and staying up to date with the weather/sap runs around the state. We're still going here in Lyndonville/Sheffield Heights area. Sap got very cloudy Saturday with 3 days straight in the 50s/60s but we survived the warm up with no sour taste. Buds still appear to be very tight. We're at 6000 gallons for the season on 21,000 taps, hoping to hit our goal of 8500 which seems very realistic at this point. Good luck to everyone still in the game!

[spud]

Talking to sugar makers in my area and they are all excited for the warm days to come. We know we will get sap but for how long? The 10 day forecast looks great for my area. The only maple trees that have swollen buds is the very large trees right behind my house. The rest of my woods consist of smaller hard maple and they are showing no buds at all. Is there a reason why the big trees bud first? With this freeze could sugar once again increase for a while? Would it be possible for the quality of syrup to get better again? I am ready and waiting for whatever the trees want to spit out. Good luck everyone.

Spud