I told my mom I get new lids each year. She said I was crazy! Just look at it and reuse it, so thats what I'm going to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swingpure
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I told my mom I get new lids each year. She said I was crazy! Just look at it and reuse it, so thats what I'm going to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swingpure
Gary, you've got the same thing going on that I do. Several of my trees are elm/maple, one side being the elm and the other a sugar maple yet when you look at the ground it appears to be all one single stump.
I sometimes use binoculars and look at the branches, maple trees have opposing branches, elm trees have alternating branches. Sometimes hard to judge until you get familiar.
Here are the day time pictures of the elm and maple trees.
As I mentioned yesterday, the pictures could have two maple trees, two elm trees, or one of each. I am saying that so you will have the same doubt I would have in the forest. If you think one is elm and one is maple say for each photo, which one is the maple.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0382...3fZMdjbsMLg0cQ
https://share.icloud.com/photos/002M..._v_JL8NyPRnkdQ
Thank you I do appreciate any tips for distinguishing the two trees from each other.
Are those the same trees? Left/right orientation same in both photos?
Look at branch structure as someclown suggested in addition to bark. Maple trees are opposite, elm is alternating. Picture of canopies is hard to tell but one on left is not a maple.
Of trunks... hard to tell alone, but one on right does not look like sugar maple bark to me. Would want to see canopy tho to confirm.
One of left....looks like sugar maple but would want to walk around it and look at canopy just to be sure.
You are correct on both accounts.Quote:
Originally Posted by DRoseum
After posting the picture of the bark, I could see the difference, although they can be similar colours, and look similar, the maple is more gnarly and the elm more uniform.
Although I can see the difference between those two crowns, others I find tougher to tell the difference.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/08fi...JaNXs__ONxDNfA
https://share.icloud.com/photos/060U...2VkWsUIICs8T4g
As far as I can tell from the pictures of the full trees, there's one elm and one maple. Elm on the left maple on the right. I have been wrong before. When i zoom in on the upper branches they seem to be alternating on the tree on the left and opposing on the tree on the right.
See what others think
This comment is from your first set of daytime pictures
I concur with DRoseum. On the bark pic, the one on the right does not look like a maple. On the canopy pic, the one on the left is not a maple.
Tomorrow I will walk out in the forest and see how comfortable I am at identifying the trees and may bring some construction tape to mark the maples in case I decide to run another line.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigschuss
Thanks for the tips.
I walked the steep hill with the three lines this afternoon. (Just an aside, I watch “Gold Rush” on TV and they always name their “cuts”, I wonder if I should have names for my lines, but I digress)
Having learnt the difference in the maple and the elm trees, I found it quite easy to distinguish between the two in the forest. (At least I think I have). I walked a path to the left of my left line and marked another 34 potential trees I could tap.
I could go buy more tubing tomorrow and run and put the drops on them, before the expected snow Sunday, but I am thinking I would be smarter to wait and see how I deal with the increased sap volume this year before getting way over my head. Also by waiting I can see what the landowner feels about our arrangement for our first year and if he gives me the blessing to continue the following year, that can be something I can add later.
My natural instinct is to tap as much as I can and find a way to deal with the sap. I can always give any extra sap to the landowners uncle who is a sugar maker nearby.
Don't overwhelm yourself. It takes all the fun out of it.
Here is another vote for that! nothing is more depressing than pouring out 700 gallons of sap because it turned to snot because you couldn't boil it fast enough....just sad...Quote:
Originally Posted by Z/MAN
Thanks that was what my brain was telling me. There is still a drive in me to take on more, but I will listen to my brain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Z/MAN
I know they are there for next season, if I am allowed back on the hill.
I have to admit this morning while I was waking up, half awake and half asleep, I considered running down to CDL and getting more tubing. Once I fully woke up my brain took over and said no.
Last year the locals said the sap flow was really poor. I had 109 taps and in no day did I ever get a gallon a tap. (109 gallons). Looking at my sap records, I averaged 31 gallons a day on any day I collected sap, and 58 gallons a day on any day I collected 40 gallons or more.
This year if the sap flow is good, where you have several days of a gallon a day, that would be 176 gallons, which would take me two days to process, not counting any time saved by ROing any sap, and goodness forbid if I ever had one of those peak days of 2 gallons per day.
Based on last year’s slow flows, I could have a number of days with 90+ gallons which is more than enough to keep me busy. I won’t add anymore lines in the future unless I upgrade my evaporator or get in a sap sharing agreement with the land owner, which is a possibility in the future.
My wife and I walked the lines today. I marked the tops (start) of the lines on Google maps. We then explored the forests behind the lines. If it was my land and I wanted to getting into sugar making seriously, I could have a couple thousand taps.
On the way back, we walked down the potential fourth line, but I kept telling myself, I would be overwhelmed if I added it.
As we got close to home, I checked the line where I lost the tension hooks. I never found them, but I noticed a tree I had marked, but did not include in the line. It was a mature maple and I decided to change the line so I could include it. So I now have 178 taps.
I looked at my last years flows and there were a number of days where I collected zero sap, often after a larger flow day, so if there are days, I get more sap then I can process that day, there will be another day I can boil it. For the most part I will boil sap within 24 hours.
87 days before sugar season for me.
I'm no more experienced than you are... I've done two seasons versus your one season, but you've done more stuff and way more taps.
But I've been finding it helpful to think in terms of goals, and keeping a check on new goals.
You've got a lot of new goals. First time divided pan, first time with new arch, as you have opportunity first time with RO, and upsized 50% or so.
Adding significantly more taps than planned now would not serve any goals and would interfere with goals you've got.
If you ever want to do a larger operation in the future, adding more taps than planned for 2023 wouldn't do a thing toward that goal, and might even set it back. Your other goals of getting good at RO, divided pan, and other things (also landowner relations) totally go toward that goal, and will go better with the number of taps you've got.
Meanwhile, as you walk those woods, take notes as you have done. Those are your 2024 season notes. By April 2023 you'll know whether you want to expand and you can spend the summer deciding how much.
Have fun!
I finally got my hands on some free 5/16” tubing and cut them to size. I likely range from 1 7/8” to 1 3/4” of the bit exposed. Now I have the tubing, which I will start off with. It does not fit super snug, so I expect they might fall off sometimes while carrying the drill. I have seven of those. I have many pieces of dowel drilled and cut to size and I have the drill stops, which I expect I will never use and are headed for my drill bit tool drawer.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTimPerkins
I add both the iCloud link and the forum picture attachment, as the iCloud link is a clearer picture, but it only lasts 30 days, so the forum attachment is there for a long time.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/00eL...jDB_lxvSXnQ55Q
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I met the landowner who owns the steep hill where I have the three lines, in person today. We chatted for a little bit. His family has been tapping trees in the area for generations. They used to own very large tracts of land and still own a fair amount.
He said they used to tap on the hill that I will be tapping, about 60 years ago, but stopped doing it, because the trees did not flow as well as other areas they could tap.
Hopefully things have changed a little and hopefully the natural vacuum from the tubing will help. Whatever I get will be welcomed.
The sugar content from the trees this year will be interesting. Last year I was routinely getting 3 to 4% sugar content.
That's a neat history! I'd say 60 years is enough time to give it another go. :-)
I have to say making maple syrup has fundamentally changed my perspective on things. Winter was a season with snow and cold and ice fishing, now winter is just pre sap running season. Looking at the snow on the lines today, all I thought about was the sap running in the lines in less than 3 months, and did not think about the snow falling.
Today we received 16 cms (6.3 inches) and the snow is not stopping and we are supposed to get another 25 cms (10 inches) in the next 24 hours and we are another day closer to the sap running.
We are 80 days away from the sugar moon.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0056...GmdJol9x0c3gjA
So we have received about a foot of wet snow, seems like more, and it sounds like more when you say we received 30 cms of snow. More snow this evening and overnight..
There was very little wind, so all of the trees were heavily laden with snow. Some branches broke, so I thought I would walk the lines on the steep hill, through the snow, to check on the lines and to start to make a path. I only found a small branch on one line. I also found a location where I might tap in a little nail into a non tapped tree, just to help hold a line up further off the ground. The lines look like they will be fine for staying above the snow, although the new lines are definitely lower than last year’s lines.
79 days until the Sugar Moon. There is a line in the second picture and obviously in the third picture.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/01eI...0FhhpZhnMIqhZA
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0897...FeMs80z108mDZA
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0271...yyQs96jY3eMTCA
I go through the whole maple season in my head, thinking about how I will do each step and looking for disconnects and new ideas.
Last year with my steam pans, as I poured my last pan into a stainless steel pot, I had a fine mesh strainer on top of the pot to strain out any large particles. This year with the divided pan I will drawing off from the valve.
Like the gentleman in the picture from a You Tube video, I plan to catch the syrup in large stainless steel brew pot and like him have the syrup run through a cone filter to catch some initial particulates. I will still filter it through my DYI vacuum filter after I finish it.
I guess different people do it different ways, but is this an okay practice?
https://share.icloud.com/photos/01ei...6P4L28EUn73rQg
Attachment 22665
That looks to be a finisher to me. The person may be completing a final filter. I use pre filters when I draw off the evaporator and into my container. Because when I take it into the house and complete the canning process it is put through the filter press.
I agree, it looked like a main filter, not a pre filter, but in the video he talked about filtering it more later. He may have used it because it held it’s shape using the clips.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pdiamond
https://youtu.be/yDCi50NdMFE
I would just use a pre filer using a stand to support it, just to catch any large particulate and maybe some sugar sand, then use my vacuum filter, for the real filtering, after I finished it.
Started thinking about the upcoming season this morning and it struck me I can save some trips hauling sap. I had bought a 35 gallon tank to go on my ATV, but at one collection location, on a good day, I could have close to 100 gallons of sap, which will be three trips. Last year I hauled sap on a trailer that I designed to hold 9 five gallon pails. It just occurred to me that it is not one of the other, it can be both. I can move about 70 gallons of sap each trip.
I also thought about the float box. I have never seen a float box in person and obviously have no experience with them. What I was thinking about was at night, after you shut the evaporator down and the temperature drops below freezing, does the sap that is in the float box freeze and does that harm the float box?
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Depending on how deep the sap is in the float box it could freeze solid, if if only an inch or 2 I would not think it would hurt anything except starting up and restricting flow. Another issue is having the sap in it go ropy if not brought to a boil and left too long. I have a drain on mine and after I flood the evaporator and get it all up to boiling, I drain out the float box and it refills from the boiling flu pan. I then dump what I drained out into the syrup pan.
My sugarhouse is on the colder side of my yard and the float box will freeze I have never had a problem with damage. There is plenty of room for expansion. Be sure you take out all the components when you are done for the night ie the float, arm etc. from the actual float box. What you will need to be mindful of is if you have a ball valve at the float and that freezes it will split and you will have a problem. (Ask me how I know). There are many ways to avoid this by drilling holes in the valve which has been covered on other threads or you may have a homerun shot from your head tank and it will not be an issue as long as you boil until the head tank is kicked. You will really like your new pan unfortunately judging by your thread you are more than hooked and I see a bigger operation in your future. I really enjoy your posts and can see the progression. I have a smokeylake 2X6 on my wish list but my 19X60 will have to do for now, things could be worse. I really wish I had a float box drain and I may have one put on before the season. I agree sap spoilage in the float box is a real issue late in the season in particular. Keep posting I can see your smile from NH!
Thanks for all of the float box advice!
Last year I had two different thermometers to help me with taking the temperature of the sap. I would use the SapTapApp to help me determine the boiling point of water and then would add 7° to that, to get me in the ball park where I would pull it off to finish the syrup later. I had a basic probe thermometer and a digital one. I mostly relied on the digital one.
This year with the new pan, I will be getting a true maple thermometer. The one where it shows 0-50 with 7 being syrup. My question is do you have to calibrate it each and every day in boiling water, prior to starting the boil? As I ask the question, I wonder how would you do that, with sap in the pan.
My guess is the 7° above boiling, in the perfect world, would give you 66 Brix sap and that you might have to get closer to 8° above to get 66.8-67 Brix syrup.
I had a fair amount of faith in my refractometer last year and I will be testing the sugar content with it and will dial it in (pun intended) with the temperature on the thermometer to know what temperature is close to the syrup Brix I want, before drawing it off.
My 0-50 thermometer is mounted at a downward angle and goes in above the syrup in the pan. It reaches down into the syrup, so it is easy to remove without any syrup running out of the pan. I remove mine daily and check the temp of boiling water, it does change.
With a 30+ gallon tank on the back of "my" ATV" [Kawasaki Bayou 220] I could not fill it. It would overload my ATV, and I could barley steer it, as the weight would come off the front wheels. The trailer might make it even worse with tongue weight. It did help me to add another small tank on the front rack. I solved that problem for this year by buying a Kubota RTV x1100c side by side for hauling the sap.
Thanks and thanks. That answers the question regarding the thermometer and highlites a potential ATV problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Z/MAN
I have a Honda Foreman 500. It has a solid rear axle and is meant to be a work machine. I did not think it’s would overload it, but because of your advice, I will only partially fill it and see how it performs. In hindsight, this summer when I practiced how to attach it to the ATV, I should have filled the tank with water and saw how the ATV performed. A friend has a similar tank on the back of his ATV, but it is larger and has tracs.
In the perfect world I would have purchased a 100 gallon horizontal tank for the bed of the truck, but they wanted almost $600 for it.
I know I can easily haul the 9, 5 gallon pails, in the trailer on their own, because I did that last year.
I had planned not to use the pails this year and just use pumps, because they added to the daily clean up work, but they will be handy for when ice forms in them overnight and I can take the ice out and they will be handy to pour into the 35 gallon feed tank. There will also be times I pump sap into the feed tank. Through trial and error with the new pan and RO, I will find the right balance.
76 days until the Sugar Moon!
If you have an auto-draw, I can see needing to calibrate every day, but I just adjust it in my head. I.E. if that day boiling is 213 (one Fahrenheit above normal) I draw at 220 (eight above instead of seven). I really don't need to be very precise, since I like to draw a little light anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swingpure
GO
You should be fine with the foreman, I had a Rubicon with the straight axle and had no problems with a 35 gallons tank on the back rack pulling a 100 gallon tank on a trailer through mud. It did good even with the 3 or 4-5 gallons containers on the front rack. After that 4-wheeler got stolen out of my driveway, I got a new one with an independent rear suspension and it still performed well.
I walked the three steep lines today, partially to break a path in the fresh snow, but mostly to make sure none of the lines will become snow covered. I raised the lines in a few locations. I can always lower them when I tap, if they are still well above the snow. The lines were snow encrusted in places weighing them down in places. Where I could reposition saplings to help support the lines, I did.
I ordered a filter cone holder and filters to sit on top of my draw off kettle.
I do not have auto draw, so thanks for the suggestion of adding or subtracting whatever the difference is from the boiling point of water.
My Honda Foreman 500 is small compared to the new 1000 cc ATV’s, but it is mighty, and I also suspect that it will be able to do the job, but I will try it with a half load first just to check it out. If we ever get a January thaw, I could test it then, prior to the season starting.
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https://share.icloud.com/photos/031Y...C3Y4XkefCV89zg
swingpure, back in your earlier post you showed your evap fire wood stored around the edges of your "open air" sugar house, how dry is it staying now with the wind, snow, and rain? it would be a sham to have it be wet or damp come sugar season after all your work
I have them all tarped up. I have been removing snow off the tarps periodically, but we recently just got a bunch of snow and have a bunch more (14-20”) coming in the next two days. I am leaving the snow on them right now because we are expecting high winds and I thought the snow would help hold them in place.Quote:
Originally Posted by nhdog
I am going to be adding 2’ tall tarps, around three sides, just above the wood piles, to help keep the light snow from blowing in. Just waiting for a nice day to do it.
My goal is to keep the area where the evaporator is, snow free, especially since I still have to drill a hole in the metal roof to add my base stack, when it is built, hopefully in January.
The picture I just took now through the door window. The snow has slid off the metal roof several times this year.
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Merry Christmas to everyone and your families! I appreciate all of the advice, tips and encouragement.
I think most or all of us will be affected by this winter storm the next couple of days, so I hope you all stay safe and cozy.
Gary
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Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and your family Gary. May God watch over you and your family. Thank you for all your inspiration.
Merry Christmas Gary and family. I enjoy reading all your posts and love your enthusiasm.
Paul
I purchased another 16 quart (15.1 L) stainless steel, induction stove compatible pot today (70% off). I had one already, which I finished my syrup in, on an induction stove. Once I got the correct Brix, I would immediately pour it into my DYI vacuum filter. I also used the same pot to heat the syrup to the right temperature for bottling, then ladle out of. So after poring the syrup through the filter, I would have to take the pot from the detached garage, into the house and clean it, then bring it back and pour the now cooled syrup back into the pot and heat if up to the 180/190 bottling temperature range.
Now with the additional pot, I can immediately pour the syrup from the vacuum filter pot (kettle) into the new pot, while it is still fairly hot and will not have to reheat it very much. And then can ladle and bottle the syrup.
I hope to take the syrup off the divided pan close to 66 Brix and then bring it to 66.8/67 Brix.
70% off seems like a good deal, where did you order it from if you don't mind me asking?