Yes raised flue & syrup pan sets require 2 float boxes. A drop flue and syrup pan set uses only 1 float box.
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Yes raised flue & syrup pan sets require 2 float boxes. A drop flue and syrup pan set uses only 1 float box.
Thanks. I read on another thread that a raised flue is preferable to a drop flue, although I guess at the least it is more expensive simply because you have to have two float boxes.Quote:
Originally Posted by DRoseum
If I was ever to chose a drop flue, I would have to redesign my evaporator, which would not be a big deal.
I should be satisfied with the divided pan, but seeing a potential 2 to 2.5 times increase in boiling rate is attractive.
Before I get too far ahead of myself, I will see what my pan builder has to say. He may not even have time in his schedule to bipuild a more complicated pan for me.
yes. you need two float boxes, one for incoming sap, one for outgoing to the finish pan, and that also controls your depth in the front syrup pan.
I spoke with my pan builder and we decided I will stick with the divided pan. He cannot tell me when I will receive the new pan and base stack and accessories, but absolutely promises I will get them before the start of the maple season.
Our snow is virtually all gone, but more snow is expected late tomorrow, brought in by a November gale. I will have to check my lines for fallen branches or trees after the expected strong winds. True cold weather arrives around December 7th and it looks like winter will finally start then.
To the notion of being satisfied with something in maple, I offer the following thought:Quote:
Originally Posted by Swingpure
"Muwhahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!"
LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Andy VT
Actually I addressed not being satisfied this summer, when I built a new structure for my evaporator, and followed suggestions to move to a divided pan with a float box, added a base stack, went to an 8” stove pipe and built a better cinder block evaporator. I also have better seasoned wood, more finely split, and I added a fan to blow air under the grate and likely will buy a better fan. I had my RO pump repaired and made improvements to my DYI vacuum filter.
In my discussion today with the builder, cost was a factor in the final decision. Two things though stood out to me was he told me about the potential of my divided pan. On his very good evaporators, he gets 15+ gph out of it, but the other thing was he asked me if I would ever do more than 172 taps and I said no. At that moment in my mind, I thought that the land I have added 75 taps to, can be taken away from me after any season, and I would be down to under 100 taps and then my need for better, faster will not be as great.
If after this season and if it is a successful one and I am not satisfied and want more, and I get some kind of guarantee, I can use the land for two or three years, I will take a hard look at getting a real evaporator, but that would be a big commitment and I am getting closer to 70. (Not there yet, just turned 67). Although 70 is the new 50, running many taps, all by myself, will start to get more challenging, so maybe going bigger is not the realistic move. But that is many decisions down the road.
I'll agree Andy, and second the motion.
Looks like you deleted the link you had to the Smoky Lake video? I have it saved, so I don't need that one. But I'm curious which other videos you might be looking at. I was also surprised at how full the firebox was in the Smoky Lake video and I'd like to see other examples.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swingpure
GO
Quote:
Originally Posted by berkshires
I am away from home right now but here is the link to the original video and a link to a second one. On the second one it is right near the end of the video you see them loading the firebox.
https://youtu.be/HQPYXBiGheM
https://youtu.be/uCeFBikLvtE
There were some others but I will have to search for them later.
I think you deleted a whiplash post :lol:
In your defense you are a stream-of-consciousness poster. Just part of the charm. My stream of consciousness is probably just as back-and-forth... I'm just not fast enough to write it down before it switches -- usually.
Wise to be considering age and resources.
Also, I think recognizing that satisfaction isn't ultimately attainable in a sugaring setup helps keep things in check. If the four-digit operation doesn't quite satisfy and the 5-digit or even 6-digit operation doesn't quite satisfy, the difference is how many digits you have tied up in it!
I have to check my receipts, but I think I'm still a 3-digit operation... but barely. At least my yearly losses will be kept within 3 digits. If my time is free. :lol:
Oh, and your homemade arch is really lovely. If you find you have a bit more resource, it would greatly benefit from a real door!
Andy
LOL I did delete a whiplash post, but I am still trying to make it happen. The 10% chance my wife giving the thumbs up went to zero, but there is another way to skin the cat and I feel 50% certain I will get it. I have to sell a few things, some of them because they become redundant if I do buy the other thing and other things I hope to sell I have not used for awhile. At one point in selling things, I get pot committed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy VT
I could have purchased a real door, I struggled with how I could merge it into the cinder blocks. The existing concrete door actually works better than it may look.
However if the 50% comes true it will not matter.
I hate to add to the whiplash, but I must say that the cinderblock evaporator you finally wound up with is the best I've ever seen on this site. Would be kind of a shame if you only used it a season. Also, I think a proper pan (which you're getting) will make much more of a difference than a proper arch - precisely because you've put so much effort into your cinderblock arch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swingpure
GO
Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by berkshires
I will be giving my cinder block evaporator a good try with the new divided pan and base stack, this upcoming season.
Over the last 24 hours I had thought the difference from what I was paying for the pan, base stack, base stack base and float box would be getting close to the price of the whole evaporator system. It was tantalizing close, but because we are saving for two other more important things, my wife was not supportive of the idea. I thought a way I could get around it was to sell a few things, but then I remembered the price did not include the 15% sales tax and that additional amount was a hill I could not climb. Lots of emotional ups and downs debating it, but I am at peace now sticking with what I have. It should work well.
Potentially I could add a metal door, but then I guess you have to attach the metal door to a metal plate, thick enough not to warp, and then attach the metal plate to the cinder blocks in an air tight way. I think for this season I will stick with my patio stone door and if I am unhappy with it, adding the metal door might be a 2023 project, with the challenge it has to be removable, because I disassemble and remove the evaporator after the maple season, so that the structure becomes a summer gazebo and deck.
We had strong winds and snow squalls last night. I will be walking my lines on the steep hill to make sure there are no branches or trees on the lines.
(Edit: My wife and I walked the lines and they were fine, no trees or branches down. I plan to walk it after each snow storm or wind event. I will also walk the other closer lines occasionally, just to keep the path easily walkable.)
Today I gathered up all of the mason jars and bottles returned to me and took inventory of them and also of the ones I had left over new from last year. I had enough for 120 L of syrup. Last year I had 109 taps and made 109 L of syrup. This year I will have 172 taps and hope to make close to 172 L of syrup.
I will buy mason jars in mostly 1 L sizes and a few 500 ml sizes to give me another 60 L of capacity.
The old bottles and jars were returned clean. I will remove any labels left on them and I will put them in the dishwasher on sterilize. I will have new lids and caps for all of them.
I do have about 41 bottles in 500 and 375 ml sizes and a few flasks.
My pan maker is also an evaporator maker. He already offered to sell me a door. I could ask him if he could add the door to a metal plate that would fit. It would not be cheap. The whole thing would have to be removable so that I could access the ashes at the end of the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy VT
I could either secure it tight to the front face of the cinderblocks, by having other cinder blocks on the other side, or with 5’ long threaded rods and nuts, I could “clamp” it to the cinder blocks.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/00bM...jpbWDbMkxtijpg
I am open to ideas.
I suspect it would cost me $400, maybe more. That whole plate would get hot and I would have to be careful never touching it.
swingpure
reading back at your post about getting old i thought i'd give you something to keep in mind . just my thoughts though.
while it is wise to consider age as we get older. i feel that we should go on and doing those things that make you happy and enjoy them as long as you still can. i'm 83 and last year i had 140 taps all on buckets spread out all over. i may move around a lot slower now but i plan on enjoying my self as long as i can. life is to short to not do what you want as long as you can and don't worry about getting old.
I find that I move around in the woods a bit slower and quite a lot more deliberately (carefully) than I used to. The younger folks move around faster, but they tend to fall down more by taking missteps or slipping on snow/ice. I very rarely fall now compared to them or when I was younger...which is just fine by me.Quote:
Originally Posted by nhdog
You're 83 and hauling buckets? Kudos. I gave up on buckets 3 years ago in favor of tubing and pumps but I have 6 or 7 buckets at the neighbors that I will pull via garden cart or sled, depending on the snow.
After slipping and shattering my scapula last february (luckily I have a good cru of friends who saved my season for me) I won't go anywhere in the yard without the YakTrax on.
Thanks. I still feel young and can put in a physical 10 hour day. I am not as strong as I was, but strong enough. My goal is live out here on our rural lake until I die. There are a few people in their 80’s here doing their chores, but have found smarter ways of doing things. Congrats to you getting your buckets at 83. I will aspire to be like you. I agree you should try to live life the best you can, while you can. I don’t even take tomorrow for granted, but hope to have lots of tomorrows.Quote:
Originally Posted by nhdog
So if I go ahead and buy the door and I think I got my head wrapped around how to do the plate and attach the door to the plate and how to put some firebrick on the inside of the plate to keep it from getting too hot and losing heat out the door.
What I am not sure if I will have enough air openings for the draft.
The height of my evaporator is 18.5”. The opening size required for the door is 16x16”. That would give me one inch above the door for the plate and an inch and a half below the door. The plate would go from the top of the evaporator, tight right to the bottom of the concrete pad. My firebox opening is about 22.5” wide. Potentially I could have openings 3” wide and 4 “ high either side of the door and I could drill holes in the plate below the door.
Would that allow for enough draft for my base stack and 8” wide stovepipe?
The yellow rectangles are not to scale but give an idea of where the larger openings would be, and the yellow circles give an idea where the holes would be, but there would be more of them, slightly smaller.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/084c...D9twcb-92YEL2Q
No, this does not look like a good plan. You want all air to come in *under* the grate. Air coming in above it is going to cool down your pans. As for how big the opening, you want the area to be the same (or larger) as your stack opening. So 8" stovepipe = 50 square inches. So if the firebox opening is 22.5" wide, you could have a two inch high opening the full width of the space to give yourself about enough space. Or else buy a blower.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swingpure
GO
one other thing about your door, i think you'll find that fire bricks do not will give you much insulation, fire brick normally is used to protect your insulation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by berkshires
Thanks the 50 sq inches is helpful.
My grill sits 4” above the fire brick and all of my air openings will be below it. I will have a blower like in the attached picture (600 cfm)
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0f5N...tY8ZDT_o40Pnmg
The questions still remains will I have enough openings sq footage? The two 3x4” openings gives me 24 sq inches. The most I will get, if I get creative is 12 more sq inches below the door, which would add up to 36 sq inches. The question is will the blower or two like it, make up the 14” sq inch shortfall and is it wise to count on blowers to give you the minimum amount of draft?
Quote:
Originally Posted by berkshires
I just cancelled getting the door. My evaporator needs to be 2” taller to allow for enough draft. Once again perhaps a next year project.
The positives from today is while at my steel supplier, I think I finally may have got my new fire grate from their scrap yard. I will know tomorrow. This has been a several month endeavour.
I also picked up four dozen more 1 L mason jars. I will get one more dozen 500 ml jars and that should be plenty for the bottling this coming season.
I didn't realize you have a blower. That changes things 180 degrees. Size of opening is important only for natural draft. With a blower you do not want other openings, or it will just blow ash all over the place. You just want the blower bolted on (if possible) to one opening, and the size doesn't matter. All that matters is placement and volume of air.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swingpure
GO
It was a stand alone floor blower and I could not make a hole wide enough to accept all of the air it puts out. If it ever died, I would be in trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by berkshires
I rather have enough natural draft and let the blower add to it. I have a 100 cfm blower and will buy a 600 cfm blower with three settings if the 100 is not enough.
Right now with my existing door I can control the amount of the draft, from 90 sq inches down to zero. I am hoping the 100 cfm one will be perfect, some air, but not too much. Last year I had my leaf blower and even from a distance, it was way too much.
I am at peace not getting the whole new evaporator at this time and not getting the metal door at this time and next year I will re-evaluate.
Although the new evaporator was tantalizingly close. I will have to pick up a temporary part time job next summer if I want it badly enough, and I will already have the pan and base stack for it.
I think it sounds like a good 2023 plan to go with what you've got.
Interesting that you mention a potential part time job to upgrade next year.
One thing we often forget, somewhat by necessity, in sugaring is that time is still money.
You can spend time building equipment, or you can spend time earning money to buy equipment.
Most of us do some combination of the two.
One is not necessarily superior to the other (making your own versus working/earning to buy), but they do both deserve consideration.
Is a blower one of those dangerous buys. like you get a good increase in your boil rate, but then you have to listen to the thing all day?
Yes, but it's dangerous in that as you increase your boil rate you realize you have to tap more trees since you now have excess capacity.
Today I removed the labels from the jars and bottles that were returned to me.
For all of the mason jars, I put on brand new lids on them. I have to say though, the lids I took off the jars looked every bit as new, as the brand new ones. Almost seemed a waste.
The last to days were quite windy, so my wife and I walked the lines again and they were all okay. While at the peak I explored the topography for a possible fourth line next season.
We will have to see if the landowner will let me return at all, but if he will and does not mind me adding another line, and if I am not overwhelmed this year, I might add another line of 25-30 taps.
Approximately 93 days away from tapping! (Sugar Moon)
It is just like any other type of canning, always use new lids.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swingpure
If you use a blower you almost have to have a motor controller to adjust the speed. A leaf blower or a bounce house blower will work, you just dial it up or back as needed. Something like this (but check the amperage on the motor you are using):
https://www.amazon.com/Variable-Cont...NsaWNrPXRydWU=
And as mentioned above you don’t want any other venting besides the blower and the stack.
Depends on the blower you buy, if you are just doing air under fire, I have a dayton blower that is very quiet, can't really hear it over the boil. Some of the high pressure blowers for air over fire are a bit more loud and some producers mount them "outside" and pipe the air in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brien
P.S., I might have been a bit careless in suggesting getting a door for the cinder block evaporator. In theory, forgetting exactly what it looks like, but just remembering that it looked really good, it seemed logical to think that if one thing could be improved, it would be to install a real door, but I did not think though at all how that would be accomplished and what sort of air flow considerations would have to be made first. But I think you've got a solid 2023 setup!
Andy
I appreciated the suggestion and was gung ho to build it and sort of designed it at 5 am, before measuring the height of the evaporator. Another two inches taller and it would have looked amazing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy VT
The cinder block evaporator is a product of listening to many suggestions last year and this year and it has changed dramatically from when I had it steel lined.
When I get my base stack, he will also be making be a plate that will sit on my evaporator, that will have the raised framing that the base stack sits on. I am thinking of welding that base plate when I receive it, to the 2x4 metal frame that the pan will be sitting on, to help keep it in place, and to seal it where they meet.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/004o...wPRlAXFg2JMSYA
I added two more taps on a medium sized length line today and picked out another tree to have a drop line to a pail, so that makes 176 taps.
I also made a bracket to hold a stove pipe probe thermometer on a single wall pipe as shown on another thread.
Almost no snow on the ground and if the 14 day forecast holds, there will not be a lot more at the end of the 14 days, but that forecast will change many times.
If I could tell the difference between elm tree bark and maple tree bark, I would be tempted now to run a fourth line on the steep hill, but they look so similar, especially when both have moss on them. I am getting much better identifying oak trees versus maple tree bark, but the elm is so close for my untrained eye.
Attachment 22645
https://share.icloud.com/photos/04aX...TgmBs-Ph21kaLQ
Edit: The iCloud link gives a much better picture, but is only is valid for 30 days.
Can you share a pic? Elm trees and maple trees should be very easy to tell apart. I know you said you have an untrained eye, but maybe we can help you. An easy way to tell elm trees from anything else out there is that elm tree bark will have a slightly spongy feel when you press it, especially on young trees. The shape of elm trees is fundamentally different from maples as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swingpure
I will take pictures tomorrow in the daylight, I have both, a few feet from my house. I did not try feeling the bark.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigschuss
Thanks
I took some tonight, will take some tomorrow as well. Now are the two trees both elm, both maple, or one of each and if so which one is the maple? I said that only to put doubt in whoever judges it mind, as I will have the same doubt in the forest.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigschuss
I did feel an elm tree and a maple tree, both felt equally as firm.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/04fR...qQyChL8m7NwCWA
https://share.icloud.com/photos/066O...36VJQxMeTDg1vA