Smoky Lake Hybrid Hobby Pan Owners!

[derzuckermann]

I am getting ready to use my brand new shiny 2x6 Smoky Lake Hybrid Hobby pan this season! I am looking for some practical advice/instructions on how to use it - I know the basics , I suppose, but it's all head knowledge with no experience and I'm hoping that I can learn some tips/tricks/procedures from others who have this pan so I can start off on the right foot. No detail is too small for me at this point, so how you go about producing your syrup using this pan from filling, starting the fire, to drawing off, etc, etc, would be greatly appreciated!

This is will be my second season making syrup so I am still new to this. Last year I used a 1x2 pan on a box wood stove, outdoors and made about 2.5 gallons of syrup. It was really difficult keeping a boil on that box stove and I froze. This year, I will be inside my new sap shack, using the 2x6 pan with float box and a homemade arch with air under. I have a steam pan / filter / bottler on order, too.

Maybe this can be a good thread for others who have this pan too, to share experiences...

Thanks!

[jmayerl]

I see that you got it with a float box. That was good. Now just adjust the float to keep the sap at whatever level you feel comfortable at( I suggest starting around 1.25-1.5") . The float box will keep adding the sap as it evaporates and a graduate will set up. After your first 4-6 hours of boiling you will be making syrup at the draw off. Then the gradiate stays and you will get syrup every 30-60 mins after that. Pretty simple deal.

[derzuckermann]

jmayerl - Thanks for the reply! I have a few questions:
1.25" - 1.5 inches? Really? That low eh? Ok...
Can you explain what "gradiate" is?
When you draw off, how much syrup do you draw at a time?
When you have used up all of your raw sap, do you just shut down and leave the pan full until next time, or do you empty and clean it?

[jmayerl]

Whew, ok here we go! You asked for it! Lol
With experience, many of us run as low as 1/2-3/4", boils faster but really not much room for error.
Gradiate is the flow that sets up as sap is boiled, ie you keep adding fresh sap in the float box and it pushes the more concentrated near syrup towards the draw off. Usually the first draw of the season is larger and then they are smaller but more frequent after that( sorry it's hard to explain with out seeing it)
Expect to draw off 1-3qts depending on the depth of your sap.
You will need to empty and clean the pan when you notice niter beginning to scale up on the bottom by the draw off. If you can block off from the rear to the front on your pan in anyway at the end if the day, the gradient will set up much faster the next day and you will draw off much sooner.

Clear as mud yet?

[jmayerl]

Oh and sorry but I don't have a hybrid pan but a regular drop flue but the concepts are all nearly the same

[derzuckermann]

This is VERY helpful! I've some more burning questions if you don't mind!

With respect to drawing off, do I simply watch the dial in the thermometer and open at 219 and close when it begins to fall?
What is niter? What does it look like?
Will the dropped flues be safe from freezing if left full after a boil?
Will the float box inlet handle any pressure or should it be as little as possible from gravity only?

Thanks!

[jmayerl]

Yes but remember that you need to verify 219 is syrup with a hydrometer( barometric pressure can change this by more than a full degree) just use the thermometer as a guide temp.

Niter aka sugarsand is minerals and all the "other stuff" that precipitates out of syrup during boiling. Some will just come out when you draw off- this then gets filtered out. Some cakes on the pan and can burn the pan or give a off flavor if it cakes up too much.
Petty much yes because there will be a higher sugar content( say 10-18%) in the flue pan and it will get slushy. If it's gonna get sub zero I would drain them. I personally have never had to drain just because of freezing.
Jim's float boxes are similar to most all in the fact that they operate good with about 18"-72" of head pressure. Put a valve in the line because all float valve will leak a bit and if you have a full head tank and want to shut down for the night, you will likely have a very overfilled pan by morning.

[Indiana-Jones]

jmayerl - Thanks for the reply! I have a few questions:
1.25" - 1.5 inches? Really? That low eh? Ok...
Can you explain what "gradiate" is?
When you draw off, how much syrup do you draw at a time?
When you have used up all of your raw sap, do you just shut down and leave the pan full until next time, or do you empty and clean it?

Hi and congratulations on your Smoky Lake pan. I bought a filter box with steam tray last year, it worked great.

I too had second thoughts on running sap that shallow, it was just not the picture that I had in my mind. But after a couple of years experience, yes that is where you make syrup, about 1 to 1 1/2 deep.

I also learned the hard way about "defoamer". When you are running shallow and making syrup, the sap at the draw off starts to bubble up to the point that there is not much liquid under the bubbles in contact with the pan. Try to draw off a little syrup and BLAMMO, you just burnt your pan. Adding a couple of drops of defoamer each time you put wood in is part of the routine.

I use the Atomic Brand, order a small bottle for 5 bucks and you are good for a couple of years. There are quite a few threads here about defoamers.

Good luck.

[lpakiz]

I haven't had to do it, but I have heard that if freezing your flues is a worry, to put a light bulb under the pan to generate a little heat. Someone else mentioned that the cold can come down the stack, so a cover over that might be helpful.

[DrTimPerkins]

I too had second thoughts on running sap that shallow, it was just not the picture that I had in my mind. But after a couple of years experience, yes that is where you make syrup, about 1 to 1 1/2 deep.

It won't cause serious problems (slightly darker syrup, slightly slower evaporation rate) to run it a little deeper the first couple of times, and then shallow it out as you gain more experience and a higher comfort level with operating the new rig.

[RileySugarbush]

A tip to determine when you are getting a niter buildup:

This will happen after quite a bit of boiling, but can vary a lot year to year and even throughout the season base on sap chemistry, but you have to watch for it or there can be problems as mentioned.

With experience you will be able to see it in how the bubbles look near the draw off, but until then and as a more certain test, thai a stainless scoop and tap the bottom of the pan there and back further in the pan. At the inlet to the syrup an the stainless bottom will sound just like you expect, a metallic clink. It there is niter it will be a dull thud. Try tapping all along the gradient and you can here how the coating tapers off as the syrup thins down.
You can also hear and feel a grittiness if you drag the scoop along the bottom.

[Pibster]

I'll be boiling on my brand new Smoky Lake 2x4 hybrid pan very soon. I hope to be ready for a test boil in the next week or two.

[johnzski]

I have also ordered the same setup as the op , should be ready soon . Except I still have to build an arch for it . I work better under pressure !

[Deano686]

Great thread fellas!! I too am entering my second season. Last year I finished the season on a half pint continuous flow pan, This year I am adding a homemade arch and a 2'x4' flu pan, also continuous flow. I'll sure use the info you've been so kind to share!! Best of luck to a great season!!

[ForFun]

Indiana-Jones,

By looking at your pics on photobucket, That is a pretty sweet set up you have! I've been tossing around the idea to build an arch out of a fuel oil tank like you did. I see that you have AOF, how many GPH does your set up cook at? What do you think it would do without the AOF?

Thanks,
Keith

[maple flats]

The "gradient" is the densities that vary in the pan. At the inlet from the float box you will usually be around 2% sugar, since you keep adding at the same place as the "sap" is boiled down, the further along the route of travel it moves, the higher the sugar%. When you get to draw off you will be at about 66.5% sugar. This gradual thickening in the pan is known as the gradient.
Start at as said, 1.25-1.5" over the flues and syrup portion of the pan and set the float to keep it there as you boil. Make it boil as fast as you can. Use dry wood, split it fine and after starting the fire, add wood by the clock. Many use 7 minute intervals. Have the wood ready to go in before you open the door and fill the firebox to about 2/3 full and close the door ASAP. An open door stops the boil, the less time it is open the faster you boil. The faster the boil the better the syrup.
Concerning overnight shut down. Don't light your first fire until you have at least 3x your expected hourly boil rate. After 3 hrs the sugar in high enough in the pans to keep them from freezing and damaging the pan. A slush will form but it will not freeze solid.
As you gain confidence boiling, gradually reduce the depth by adjusting the float control until you get down to 1" deep. That should be your goal for your 1st year. In another year you can remain at 1" or reduce it to 3/4". The lower the level the faster the boil.
Have fun!!!!
Warning, this is very addictive and there is no cure. However the best therapy is The Maple Trader regularly.

[Chris siperko]

I'll be boiling on my brand new Smoky Lake 2x4 hybrid pan very soon. I hope to be ready for a test boil in the next week or two.

Just wondering what gph evaporation rate you got with the 2x4 hybrid pan? Do you have a blower on your stove?

[Pibster]

Once I got the arch roaring with dry pallet wood, I was very close to the Smokey Lake GPH claim. My blower and steam hood /preheater should gain me another 3-5 gallons. I learned that you have to really crank the fire to get the pan humping.

[derzuckermann]

Aside for this year being slooooow - I have had really good success with my 2x6 Smokey Lake Hybrid Pan. Last year (first year) I had a max boil rate of ~45gph with no blower and no pre-heater. I had nice dry wood and fired hard that time. On average it was about 40 gph which is still amazing.

This year I have a steam hood and preheater. I boiled once and got about 50gph conservatively. I am going to boil again this weekend - my trees finally woke up today. We had a nice 22 degree night and close to 50 degrees daytime temperature.

[n8hutch]

I don't have A hybrid smokey lake pan but I do have a set of his pans & they are great. Worth every penny & probably a few more to be quite honest with you.