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Thread: Why would my new ro all of a sudden pass sugar?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Ashtabula County, Ohio
    Posts
    1,742

    Default Why would my new ro all of a sudden pass sugar?

    Nextgen 100Hpro single 4×40 with H20 membrane. All of a sudden today the flow doubled to twice what it should be on both the concentrate and permeate sides. Permeate is 1% sugar. Could a seal all of a sudden go bad? It did not freeze and I have washed it as directed. This is my 4th ro amd never had this happen. Swamped in sap too of course.
    1000 taps on vac down to 3 buckets, 140 taps on gravity tubing, 75 on 4008 Shurflo
    2x7 A&A Raised Flue
    CDL 18" vacuum filter
    NGMP 100 HPRO RO
    2019 Kawasaki Mule Pro MX, Long 510 sap haulers
    Past evaporators: Phaneuf 2x6, A&A 2.5x10, Smoky Lake 2x8 (oil then wood fired)
    Syrup made 2010:36 gal 2011:126 gal 2012:81 gal 2013:248 gal 2014: 329.5 gal 2015:305 gal 2016:316 gal 2017:258 gal 2018:147 gal 2019:91 gal 2020: 30 gal
    Tapping the same trees my great, great and great grandfathers tapped.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Loudon NH
    Posts
    5,722

    Default

    Sounds like the brine seal on the membrane might have failed. I would start looking there.
    Russ

    "Red Roof Maples" Where the term "boiling soda" was first introduced to the maple producing world!

    Algier 2x6 evaporator, W F Mason arch
    Lapierre 250 Turbo RO machine
    SP-22 vacuum pump
    1930 Ford Model AA Doodlebug tractor
    1971 IH 454 52hp diesel tractor
    A couple of Honda 4 wheelers
    About a dozen chainsaws and no chickens

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Ashtabula County, Ohio
    Posts
    1,742

    Default

    Wondering why the brine seal would fail on a brand new ro?
    1000 taps on vac down to 3 buckets, 140 taps on gravity tubing, 75 on 4008 Shurflo
    2x7 A&A Raised Flue
    CDL 18" vacuum filter
    NGMP 100 HPRO RO
    2019 Kawasaki Mule Pro MX, Long 510 sap haulers
    Past evaporators: Phaneuf 2x6, A&A 2.5x10, Smoky Lake 2x8 (oil then wood fired)
    Syrup made 2010:36 gal 2011:126 gal 2012:81 gal 2013:248 gal 2014: 329.5 gal 2015:305 gal 2016:316 gal 2017:258 gal 2018:147 gal 2019:91 gal 2020: 30 gal
    Tapping the same trees my great, great and great grandfathers tapped.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Ashtabula County, Ohio
    Posts
    1,742

    Default

    Took the membrane out. Seals were all in place. Felt for nicks and did not find any. It's flowing at 2 gph both permeate and concentrate at only 150 psi. Something seems wrong. Waiting on call from the owner of ngmp.
    1000 taps on vac down to 3 buckets, 140 taps on gravity tubing, 75 on 4008 Shurflo
    2x7 A&A Raised Flue
    CDL 18" vacuum filter
    NGMP 100 HPRO RO
    2019 Kawasaki Mule Pro MX, Long 510 sap haulers
    Past evaporators: Phaneuf 2x6, A&A 2.5x10, Smoky Lake 2x8 (oil then wood fired)
    Syrup made 2010:36 gal 2011:126 gal 2012:81 gal 2013:248 gal 2014: 329.5 gal 2015:305 gal 2016:316 gal 2017:258 gal 2018:147 gal 2019:91 gal 2020: 30 gal
    Tapping the same trees my great, great and great grandfathers tapped.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    West Michigan
    Posts
    33

    Default

    If a brand new system there may be a defective part somewhere. It happens.
    All Sugar Maples
    2017 7 taps on propane & 5 gal pot
    2018 12 taps on propane & 5 gal pot
    2019 17 taps on propane & 5 gal pot, Gen 1 barrel evaporator
    2020 26 taps 2-22-20 - Gen 2 barrel evaporator, DIY 100GPD RO
    2021 cut back some-12 taps Gen 2 barrel evap-too many other projects.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Lake County Ohio
    Posts
    1,338

    Default

    Jason, I feel your pain.
    Never had as much sap in two days as I had this past Monday and Tuesday.
    The little CDL Hobby RO sure earned its keep this week pulling over 400 gallons of water out.
    ...I hope they can get it corrected for you soon.
    John Allin

    14x18 Hemlock Timber Frame Sugar House 2009
    Leader 2x6 w/Patriot Raised Flue Pan 2009
    Leader Steam Hood 2014 - Clear Filter Press 2015
    Leader Revolution Pan and SS Pre-Heater 2016
    CDL Hobby RO & Air Tech L25 Hi Vac Pump 2019
    06' Gator HPX to collect wood & sap
    14' Ski-Doo Tundra for winter work in the woods
    Great Family 3 grown kids+spouses and 7 grand kids who like the woods
    7th Gen Born in Canada - Raised in Chardon Ohio - Maple Capital of the World..<grin>.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Ashtabula County, Ohio
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    Default

    We are thinking its the membrane. Steve at ngmp is doing great.
    1000 taps on vac down to 3 buckets, 140 taps on gravity tubing, 75 on 4008 Shurflo
    2x7 A&A Raised Flue
    CDL 18" vacuum filter
    NGMP 100 HPRO RO
    2019 Kawasaki Mule Pro MX, Long 510 sap haulers
    Past evaporators: Phaneuf 2x6, A&A 2.5x10, Smoky Lake 2x8 (oil then wood fired)
    Syrup made 2010:36 gal 2011:126 gal 2012:81 gal 2013:248 gal 2014: 329.5 gal 2015:305 gal 2016:316 gal 2017:258 gal 2018:147 gal 2019:91 gal 2020: 30 gal
    Tapping the same trees my great, great and great grandfathers tapped.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Garrettsville,Ohio
    Posts
    512

    Default

    did the membranes soak for 24 before using? that could be it or an o-ring nicked on the exit end where the extension goes over the nipple
    Fred Ahrens
    330-206-1606
    Richards Maple Products
    Ohio CDL sales rep

    dont take life too serious, nobody gets out alive anyways

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Ashtabula County, Ohio
    Posts
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    Default

    Yes they did Fred. The o rings felt smooth to me, no nicks. Steve is sending me another membrane to see if that is the problem.
    1000 taps on vac down to 3 buckets, 140 taps on gravity tubing, 75 on 4008 Shurflo
    2x7 A&A Raised Flue
    CDL 18" vacuum filter
    NGMP 100 HPRO RO
    2019 Kawasaki Mule Pro MX, Long 510 sap haulers
    Past evaporators: Phaneuf 2x6, A&A 2.5x10, Smoky Lake 2x8 (oil then wood fired)
    Syrup made 2010:36 gal 2011:126 gal 2012:81 gal 2013:248 gal 2014: 329.5 gal 2015:305 gal 2016:316 gal 2017:258 gal 2018:147 gal 2019:91 gal 2020: 30 gal
    Tapping the same trees my great, great and great grandfathers tapped.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Garrettsville,Ohio
    Posts
    512

    Default

    good deal. hopefully that fixes it
    Fred Ahrens
    330-206-1606
    Richards Maple Products
    Ohio CDL sales rep

    dont take life too serious, nobody gets out alive anyways

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