New Line Installs - Brand New Woods

[DrTimPerkins]

I wash my tubing by pumping water with some chlorine mixed in. Then I allow it to drain before plugging the drops. I have not experienced plugging. I use adapter spouts and check valve adapters. I am very pleased with the amount of sap I get. When running good, I am running 27-28” vacuum at the top. When only running marginal, having added vacuum would gain more sap.

With that approach you are probably getting close to maximal sap production yields for your site (reasonably comparable to pumped high vacuum), that is...as long as you're good at detecting/repairing leaks. The only downside, as you allude to, is the reduced vacuum on trees lower down the slope.

[Mead Maple]

Well then it sounds to me like 3/16" it is. Are we still thinking if using a dedicated tapping bit, that 3/16" tap and drop is the way to go? Or would it be worth using the 5/16" drop to a 3/16" T?

How about total length? What's is everyone's max 3/16" run?

[Maplewalnut]

With that approach you are probably getting close to maximal sap production yields for your site (reasonably comparable to pumped high vacuum), that is...as long as you're good at detecting/repairing leaks. The only downside, as you allude to, is the reduced vacuum on trees lower down the slope.

You also have to be as good or better detecting clogs or blockage. You still might be getting sap at the saddle but a block further up the line may be seriously compromising vacuum. Again with most of us running long laterals chances are there are alot of taps above the blockage. Add that most slope is steep and changing drops every 3 years (with no snow and ice on the ground) looks more and more appealing for cheap insurance

[mol1jb]

Well then it sounds to me like 3/16" it is. Are we still thinking if using a dedicated tapping bit, that 3/16" tap and drop is the way to go? Or would it be worth using the 5/16" drop to a 3/16" T?

How about total length? What's is everyone's max 3/16" run?

I have heard some running up to 2k ft. I have a few long runs from the main line at the bottom of the hill all the way to the back woods at the top of the hill around 1500ft. I did have 25-30 taps per run of 3/16 but with some squirrel issues I have since split the larger tap lines in half to keep my eggs in multiple baskets if you will. That way if a line get chewed and has a leak less taps are effected.

[Mead Maple]

Yeah the idea of blockage or vac leakage is definitely on my mind and I fully intend to install vac gauges on every line. I’m able to get to the top of my woods rather easily if conditions allow snowmobile or ATV access because old logging roads made it easy to install switchbacks with a mini excavator and dozer. So hopefully that will help keep me more in check with optimal line production.

I think my longest run would be 400ft-600ft and again that would be used in order to gain max vacuum using elevation drop as my friend. The woods are rather steep so I will try and do my best to capitalize on that before tying into the mainline


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[DocsMapleSyrup]

You had asked about drops. I run a small 3/16 operation for the last four years. I started with 3/16 drops but have since gone to 5/16. Somewhere on the trader, someone mentioned that with a larger diameter drop, there should be less back flow of sap into the tap hole at the end of the day. I'm not sure if that is true or not, but that was my reasoning after reading the trader.

[Mead Maple]

You had asked about drops. I run a small 3/16 operation for the last four years. I started with 3/16 drops but have since gone to 5/16. Somewhere on the trader, someone mentioned that with a larger diameter drop, there should be less back flow of sap into the tap hole at the end of the day. I'm not sure if that is true or not, but that was my reasoning after reading the trader.

Somewhere in my reading of 3/16 there was a comment of retraction and with 5/16 is what X amount and with 3/16 it was something in the area of 3-4 times that. Makes me wonder if 5/16 drops with CV spouts might help keep that pull back to a minimum. I suppose with 100 taps +/- I wouldn’t mind springing for that (assuming its worth the cost)


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[maple flats]

studies have shown that in use the biggest difference between 3/16 and 5/16 is that the gasses can pass the sap in 5/16, but not in the 3/16. That is the biggest reason I have all drops in 5/16 while at this point all or almost all laterals are in 3/16. The fact that the gasses can pass the sap in 5/16 helps you get less if any pull back into the tap hole. Another thing that will help is to use the check valve tap CV2 or adapter CV1.
I currently have slightly over half of my taps in the Zap Bac tap, the rest are CV2. After reading lots of info on the Zap Bac vs. the CV, I will be back to all CV2 either for either 2020 or 2021.

[DrTimPerkins]

After reading lots of info on the Zap Bac vs. the CV, I will be back to all CV2 either for either 2020 or 2021.

Dr. Abby van den Berg (UVM), Steve Childs (Cornell) and I (UVM) have a summary paper on 10 yrs of research on sanitation at UVM and Cornell coming out in the October Maple Digest (NAMSC). It shows average yields and average net profit for a variety of different strategies examined over that time. It focuses on 5/16" tubing however, not 3/16"...and they are different in some ways due to the plugging issue.

[Lukie]

Not to beat this thread to death but after reading all the replies I am still confused I will be installing lines for the first time also. I have my two main lines run 3/4 inch with the wire. The runs are close to 500 feet and pretty good pitch will be using mother nature for vacuum and will never have a vacuum pump! I bought ever thing for my lateral line for 3/16 and will be cleaning my line with only water and blowing out with air . And after reading all the replies I would use 5/16 for the drops and replace all the spouts every year. But after reading the replies I am confused some say that the 3/16 will plug up after the first year but I will have better vacuum on 3/16 so I guess before I run all my lines knowing that I will be cleaning only with water and NOT replacing my lines except the drops every 5 years should I just use 5/16 and be happy with the vacuum from that so I don't plug . I Know there is a lot of variables but plain and simple would you be better off in the long run staying with 5/16 for the long haul sorry to be so long winded but would like to do this right the first time. Also will only have 3 to 4 taps per lateral 30 to 40 foot runs to the lateral