Reusing Spout Adapters

[Amber Gold]

I run a two part spout system: stubby w/ a reducer. Last year was my first year so everything was new. At the end of last season I pulled all my taps, boiled the reducers, and ziplock bagged them to keep them clean. I was intending to reuse them this season...figuring it's wasteful to throw stuff out every year if it's in good condition.

I either read/heard that you're supposed to replace the reducers every year to get max. production. Is this correct? Has anyone done a comparison in their woods to see if new reducers run longer than sterile, used reducers. I thought the reasoning was there's a slight microbial film (or something) that isn't easily removed from the reducer.

If new reducers will increase production then I'll go for it. It wouldn't take too much syrup to pay off the reducers.

Thoughts??

Thanks

[KenWP]

From what I read the way people disinfect is guestionable. There are so many ways to clean things out there it really makes no sense to not use them over. Granted they are cheap to buy but they also add up over time also. They make acid based degreasers that also remove mineral scum so that disinfectants can get down to the base material now.

[DrTimPerkins]

Originally Posted by Amber Gold

I either read/heard that you're supposed to replace the reducers every year to get max. production.

Although cleaning (including boiling, acid rinse, ethanol) will help to varying degrees, there is no reasonable way to clean spouts or adapters that will result in them being returned to a new state. This is because bacterial biofilms develop in/on the surface of spouts/fittings/tubing which are nearly impossible to remove (which is why they do not reuse tubing or plastic IV parts in the medical field) without using things like autoclaving (steam under high pressure), radiation, or very nasty chemicals (chlorine or bromine gas). You can get the spouts somewhat cleaner, but cannot reasonably return them to a new condition. Thus there will always be some microbial colonies on the adapter waiting for the proper conditions to proliferate. Since it is microbes that cause taphole drying, the cleaner the spout adapter, the cleaner the taphole, the longer the hole will run.

The way these were designed to be used, and the BEST way, is to replace them each year. Research has clearly shown that a new spout or spout adapter will result in 10-15% increase in production on a tubing system that is more than a few years old. If you do try to clean them, don't complain when/if they don't work as well.

Please note that I did not use the term "sterile" anywhere above. We are not talking about a sterile system in maple sap collection.

Tim Perkins
UVM PMRC

[Maplewalnut]

Dr Tim,

Your scientific contributions to the site has been great and I enjoy a scientific approach to research for the industry. However, I would like to challenge the point you made about not returning spouts to a 'new' state.

In fact with proper processing I believe spouts can be returned to a better state than when you open a bag of them for first time use. Lets not forget that spouts are manufactured in an uncontrolled warehouse on equipment less than clean. Along with burrs and shavings generally found acceptable in a plastic manufacturing operation, bacteria is prevalent.

Without proper disinfection and rinsing of 'new' spouts, adaptors, T's, tubing etc before being put into use, often some of the same spores and bacteria that are present at the tap hole during the season can be found in a new bag of tubing and tubing connectors before it even sees the woods.

For equipment, I would expect most bugs to be people generated staphylococcus, micrococcus species but I think you would agree new equipment is far from clean right out of the bag! Although I have not researched it, sap probably contains more enviromental organisms such as bacillus and pseudomonas. In any case, biofilm can be removed with a variety of ways available to the sugarer including boiling and chemical disinfection. Anybody ever take connectors to your local jewelry store and ask them to be sonicated? You do not need a depyrogenation oven or steam sterilizer to achive a substantial log reduction of biofilm. And in fact if your preparation of new equipment does not include rinsing and disinfection as previously mentioned, you can often achive a cleaner piece of equipment after the season is complete than the first time you took it out of the bag.

Thanks Mike

[Haynes Forest Products]

Dang now I understand why my wife gets mad when I put on new underware right out of the bag. So you take the new taps, Ts, Y connectors out of the open bag that is sitting in a old bucket and manhandle it with your work gloves and make up latterals in the woods........AT what point do we just say Ill take what I can get (sap) and not worry about getting OCD over this.

I do understand from a clinical stand point its all about removing all the negatives that can effect Sap production. Next thing you know we will be wearing masks in the woods and blowing out tap holes with compressed nitrogen tanks.

[Fred Henderson]

Anything that is fun and low tech, has to by the monetary laws has to change. It has to become a very scientific venture and become very costly to do. Then the fun is one.

[DrTimPerkins]

Originally Posted by Maplewalnut

Without proper disinfection and rinsing of 'new' spouts, adaptors, T's, tubing etc before being put into use, often some of the same spores and bacteria that are present at the tap hole during the season can be found in a new bag of tubing and tubing connectors before it even sees the woods.

True, although most injection molding facilities are reasonably clean, so I doubt that new from the factory they are terriby contaminated with microorganism, but they certainly are cleaner. It isn't like they drag these things through the mud before putting them in a bag. The resin itelf is food-grade, and is heated to the point where it is essentially sterile. As soon as the part is ejected from the mold, contamination is possible. However they are usually put into sealed bags quickly, which restricts contamination to some degree. If you pick up just a handful from a dealer's bin, they may have more dust and microorganisms on them, but if they're still in a sealed bag that came direct from the factory that made them, they are really quite clean.

In general, most spouts are NOT brought in each year. So a brand new replaceable spout adapter is FAR cleaner than a spout that has been out in the field for a year or two (or ten). This is all the more the case because plastic is porous to some degree, and secondly because microbial biofilms develop on the surface.

If you do bring them in, it doesn't seem to make a lot of difference whether you boil them, immerse them in alcohol, use chlorox or other things (we've tried). You will get them cleaner to some degree, but you not get them totally clean without mechanically scrubbing them to remove surface deposits (on both the inside and out). Regardless, you won't get off all the biofilm from the parts. Most people do not go to this trouble. They do just enough to make them feel like they did something to make their spouts clean...chances are whatever was done wasn't terribly effective. Then they toss them in a bucket (sometimes without drying them first) and let them sit in the sugar house for the next 9 months.

Therefore, I still contend that for MOST sugarmakers, and especially those producers who have a large number of taps where cleaning just isn't very likely to happen, that using an annually replaced spout adapter is the way to go.

Tim P.
UVM PMRC

[DrTimPerkins]

Originally Posted by Fred Henderson

It has to become a very scientific venture and become very costly to do.

Some are in it for fun to be sure, and don't really care if they make money or spend it. That is absolutely fine. In that case -- why even bother with vacuum.

For others, maple production is their business. For some, it is their primary business for a large part of the year, and a good share of their annual income is derived from maple production. For those who make part of their living from sugaring, if you can pay $0.25-0.35 for a new spout adapter, and get 10-15+% more sap out of a taphole (or more if it's a Check-Valve spout adapter), it becomes economically advantageous to replace adapters each year. Their fun comes when they cash their checks for the syrup they sell.

For those who don't care to increase their sap yield....that's OK too, don't use them...it's your choice.

Tim P.
UVM PMRC

[Maplewalnut]

Originally Posted by DrTimPerkins

If you do bring them in, it doesn't seem to make a lot of difference whether you boil them, immerse them in alcohol, use chlorox or other things (we've tried).

Therefore, I still contend that for MOST sugarmakers, and especially those producers who have a large number of taps where cleaning just isn't very likely to happen, that using an annually replaced spout adapter is the way to go.

Agree, but there are options to buying new connectors each season. And I would think a large producer would balk more at $.25 cents a tap hole each year if it could be avoided. It is a benefits vs cost analysis but I would suggest anyone looking for a cleaning option look at rinsing with Sodium Hydroxide. It takes no mechanical agitation and the by product after disinfection is essentially H2O so it presents a user friendly disinfection option. Studies I have performed at lab scale show it is far better than any disinfection with IPA, sodium hypochlorite or tap water.

Mike

[halfast tapper]

Originally Posted by Maplewalnut

Agree, but there are options to buying new connectors each season. And I would think a large producer would balk more at $.25 cents a tap hole each year if it could be avoided. It is a benefits vs cost analysis but I would suggest anyone looking for a cleaning option look at rinsing with Sodium Hydroxide. It takes no mechanical agitation and the by product after disinfection is essentially H2O so it presents a user friendly disinfection option. Studies I have performed at lab scale show it is far better than any disinfection with IPA, sodium hypochlorite or tap water.

Mike

Maybe for someone who has less than a thousand taps it would be feasable to go to that extreme, but for someone who has 10,20,or 30 thousand taps is is not feasable to try to clean them. As we all know time is money. It would cost a large sugarmaker far more than 25 cents a spout to pay someone to clean them, plus the time spent cleaning them could be spent better in the bush adding out more taps. It is much easier to grab a new bag each season and head out and tap.