New ARC taps vs CV taps

[Ryan Mahar]

Forgive me if this has already been discussed, and if so please point me to the post. THere are so many that it can be tough to find these discussions. I am wondering if Dr. Tim has shown a direct comparison of the new ARC vs CV spouts. We have solely used CV spouts since they came out. We believed in the research and have stuck with them. We have nothing to compare to. However, we are going to try 1/2 of our bushes with new ARC spouts. I have never completely understood why the CV spouts are still recommended even when vacuum is on 24 hours a day. The ARC spouts are 1/2 the cost. We have kept data for 10 years on the sap collection and when we have good vacuum, ~23-25 inches, with minimal leaks, we generally make .35 to .38 gallons of syrup per tap with the CV's. It will be interesting to see the difference with the ARC spouts. Can anyone tell me if there are any direct comparisons in research out there yet?? Thank you!

[ecp]

While I am sure I will be corrected here is what I believe is the answer. There are other conversations, but I am having trouble locating them as well. The arc spout increases potential vacuum to the tap hole by reducing friction loss (I think all the research is using the arc tee and arc spout in conjunction so just using an arc spout will yield differently). If you get the arc spout with the barb option, the barbs allow for the spout to be closer to the outside of the tree which allows for more production because you not blocking off the most productive layer. If I remember correctly the barbs are better for early season production but as the season goes on they tappers off to being the same as a regular spout. I highly doubt you will ever see a combo barbed spout with a CV option because of the patents on each, and the relationship between the 2 manufacturing companies. Either way you cut it good sanitation practices are needed for high yields and there are several high yield producers out there that never use CV spouts.

[Ryan Mahar]

Thank you, yes that is my understanding as well, but I am asking if there has been side by side comparison of output of the two spouts on high vac. In other words can I expect the same sap flow from the cheaper ARC compared to the more expensive CV. If so why would I spend the extra money. If I am going to get more sap per tap using CV, then they will still be worth the extra cost..... thanks

[toquin]

Nothing for comparison. But I take all my lines down every year and the ARC taps got hooked on anything that was close enough. Going back to the seasonal straight.

[Brian]

https://middlevalleymaple.com/services/ I think this is interesting.

[nhdog]

go to bascoms and do a search for mvmcspb . i got mine last year from them.

[82cabby]

I had a nice phone conversation before last season (Nov/Dec ish) with the the representative at the company making the barbed arc spouts. It was explained to me that the CV spouts primary benefit is they can extend your season by keeping the tap holes bacteria free longer but don’t increase harvest on each day. The short barrel arc taps help you harvest more sap each run but do not extend your season. I tried the arc taps and had decent results but they do tend to pull off some bark when you remove them.
If I go with the short barrel barbed arcs again this season, I am going to use the nylon ones as I did have some trouble with the polycarbonate ones cracking when installed (probably 5 in the 125 I used).

[ebliese]

82cabby, I'm curious if you have numbers on how much sap you were collecting with the short barreled barbed arc spouts. We're on buckets here so I was hoping someone in a similar situation had some data available.

[82cabby]

We collected 1,725 gallons from 125 taps all on tubing from which we produced 25 gallons of syrup (our trees always run very low sugar %). That’s the second best yield we’ve had, but in all fairness the record yield year was a fluke and we made 40 gallons of syrup. 18-22 gallons of syrup is our norm.The weather wasn’t great and all the large producers around here complained that it was an off year so I felt lucky to have had a good season.

Now take into consideration, we are really small time and one year isn’t much of a sample size so it’s hard to tell what is making a difference.