Leaves falling quickly off a few trees

[Sugar Bear]

This is one of the maple tree I was talking about that hangs onto their leaves well after all of the other maples.

The Oak trees always hang onto some of theirs well into the winter. (Although this year a number of them have lost all of their leaves already.)

Those photos of the maples are exemplars of marcescence. Exactly why and how come it occurs is really still unknown. Lots of conjecture. One of the thoughts is how green the leaves still are on a given tree at the time of a first very hard frost of the season.

Let me guess on your past 6 weeks? You have had some frosts but nothing hard or severe while the leaves were turning over? Probably getting some hard stuff frost now. But everything is down by now. So little to no marcescencing this year.

The Norwegian makes the argument that not all trees are susceptible or even capable of marcescence as they frequently stay with some green even well into the season of hard frosts, year after year, but then suddenly just drop all of their leaves entirely rarely, if ever showing any signs of any marcescence.

[DRoseum]

I believe norway maples are more likely to exhibit marcescence than other maple species given they hold their leaves longer.

[Sugar Bear]

I believe norway maples are more likely to exhibit marcescence than other maple species given they hold their leaves longer.

Marcescence is when the leaves stay attached to the tree and the leaves actually crinkle up, die and dry out on the tree but yet stay attached to the tree even through windy snow storms through the winter.

There is conjecture that the tree reabsorbs some of the nutrients in the leaves as it does this. Perhaps Tim Perkins knows something about that.

While Norway Maples hold their leaves later into the season more than any other tree, they seem to drop their leaves in entirety by December 22 in every case I have ever seen. They almost never seem to "marcescence" any of their leaves even though they "typically" take the longest to actually turn off their green and drop their leaves.

And so they in my opinion support the conjecture that "marcescnece" is at least somewhat species dependent as well as weather dependent.

[Swingpure]

Those photos of the maples are exemplars of marcescence. Exactly why and how come it occurs is really still unknown. Lots of conjecture. One of the thoughts is how green the leaves still are on a given tree at the time of a first very hard frost of the season.

Let me guess on your past 6 weeks? You have had some frosts but nothing hard or severe while the leaves were turning over? Probably getting some hard stuff frost now. But everything is down by now. So little to no marcescencing this year.

The Norwegian makes the argument that not all trees are susceptible or even capable of marcescence as they frequently stay with some green even well into the season of hard frosts, year after year, but then suddenly just drop all of their leaves entirely rarely, if ever showing any signs of any marcescence.

Actually this year we did not have many frosts, but I agree these trees are good examples of marcescence.

Because these same trees exhibit marcescence every year, I think there is a genetic component to it. Just my guess.

[Sugar Bear]

Actually this year we did not have many frosts, but I agree these trees are good examples of marcescence.

Because these same trees exhibit marcescence every year, I think there is a genetic component to it. Just my guess.

Yes I agree. But early freezing temps do seem to play a factor too I think in the rate it occurs in its favorite tree type, from season to season. Specifically, the hard and early frost being more impactful with regards to the amount of marcescence.

It also seems to be more prevalent in the younger trees with the species. Not as much so with oaks.

Norwegian Maples hold their leaves the longest but once they turn from green to yellow, they hold them no longer than any other tree. In fact, they lose them at that point faster than most other trees.

And I believe I have yet to see a Norwegian Maple that has gone from green to marcescence state. To do so the tree would have to bypass the yellow color state of its leaves and go from green directly to marcescence state which is about the same color on your photos.

The color of tree leaves in a marcescence state is about the same color across all tree types. As everybody knows, the color of tree leaves that go from green to typical fall foliage and drop off varies widely across the different tree types.

Bottom line here is it is important not to mistake a tree in a marcescence state as dead or unhealthy, but rather recognized as just another aspect of Charlie Darwin at work.

[DrTimPerkins]

My professional opinion, after decades of research, is trees (like people) can sometimes do odd things, and that sometimes a few individuals can be just plain weird. You'll find that it is often hard to find a lot of info on the odd things, and even more unlikely that there is much on the really weird stuff, unless it's weird in a really interesting or meaningful way.

[berkshires]

While Norway Maples hold their leaves later into the season more than any other tree, they seem to drop their leaves in entirety by December 22 in every case I have ever seen.

I'm surprised to hear you say that. In my neck of the woods, the trees that are most likely to still have some leaves on them by end of winter are beech, some kinds of oak, and Norway maple.

In fact, I was going to make a joke that I agree with Swingpure that there's a genetic component to the trees he sees holding the leaves. The genetic component being that they're a different species - they're probably Norway maples!

GO

[Swingpure]

In fact, I was going to make a joke that I agree with Swingpure that there's a genetic component to the trees he sees holding the leaves. The genetic component being that they're a different species - they're probably Norway maples!

GO

100% for sure it is a sugar maple. Even when this tree was a pup (sapling), it kept it’s leaves well after the others. Norway maples are considered an invasive species here and to be honest I do not think there are any or very many in our area.

Picture is from 10 years ago, not very sharp, but you can still see the leaves on it. The tree had been in the shadow of a much larger white pine tree. Once the white pine was removed, the maple flourished.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/055Z...qZ--UcM3ITiKWA

[berkshires]

Well okay if you say 100% sure, I'll trust you, even though you say there are very few in your area for you to compare to. When they're young you can't really tell by bark, you have to look at the buds and samaras (seed pods). That said, like the good Doctor said, trees are like the rest of us, some of us are just a little weird. Guess you got some weirdos over there!

Cheers,

Gabe

[Sugar Bear]

I'm surprised to hear you say that. In my neck of the woods, the trees that are most likely to still have some leaves on them by end of winter are beech, some kinds of oak, and Norway maple.

In fact, I was going to make a joke that I agree with Swingpure that there's a genetic component to the trees he sees holding the leaves. The genetic component being that they're a different species - they're probably Norway maples!

GO

Around here it's also the Beech and oaks (dominantly so in the pin and scarlet oaks) that the leaves actually die on and do not fall off and remain on through the winter. The leaves actually shrivel up on the tree and stay attached. Sometimes it happens in small sugar maples as well. While the Norwegians in my area do hold their leaves as green leaves far longer than any other tree, they always turn yellow after that and fall off in entirety usually by mid-December. They never shrivel up to a brown color and stay attached to a tree. And I am not talking about a small sample size of Norwegians. About 30 of them. So, I never see the Norwegians be "weird" so to speak. Likewise, I never see those Large leafed Asian maples with the purple leaves be "weird" as well.

And I always have to do a secondary leaf blow of Norwegian Leaves in mid-December.

So, it seems like that process of leaf shriveling and staying attached all winter is part of the indigenous strains of trees only. At least in Maples around here anyway.