Checking what VT sugar makers are doing

[blissville maples]

Nice surprise yesterday, sun popped out after a short freeze and the sap ran pretty hard for about 6hrs. A little over half gallon p/t. System got well primed over the weekend. Sugar came up a bit testing 1.9. my non vacuum yard run the sugar is 2.6 and I know some water was in there, wish my vac. Trees gave 2.6!

[randolphvt]

Lost 3 of my 15 buckets in the wind... no where to be found. Wind is not fun.

[blissville maples]

Yea I don't particularly care for the wind! Just like a porcopine - nothing good about it!
Unbelievable run yesterday from noon until 7. Pretty sure couple spots were 1 gal sap per tap+. The sugar content is right up there also I've seen 2.1/2.2 that's the highest I can recall on vaccum.i think the trees wanted to seed out last spring but that last cold snap froze them and made them drop!!
We will process anywhere from 10-13k gallons today as I stockpiled for 2 days, Should be a 6 barrel day

[DrTimPerkins]

i think the trees wanted to seed out last spring but that last cold snap froze them and made them drop!!

Hey Bliss...wondering what you mean by this? Trees "wanting" to seed in the spring of 2021 wouldn't have an influence on the sugar content in the spring of 2021? The tree's energy isn't used in "wanting" to do something...just in the actual doing of it.

The research that was done a few years back relating lower sap sugar content to high seed production is largely BS for a bunch of reasons, the main one being that the researcher used syrup production to estimate sap sugar content across the region. Both Mike Farrell and I had met with him beforehand and told him that was a bad idea. The one big driver of the results was 2012, which had a low sap sugar content (ESTIMATED from syrup production) which followed a seed year in 2011. Of course, any maple producer who made syrup in 2012 knows what caused the low production that year...it was the 3-4 days of 70-80 deg F temperatures in mid-March...NOT low sap sugar.

Not saying there isn't any relationship between seed and sap sugar, but just that particular study wasn't worth the paper it was printed on.

[Ultimatetreehugger]

"Not saying there isn't any relationship between seed and sap sugar, but just that particular study wasn't worth the paper it was printed on." True farmer terminology right here. Blunt and effective.
Dr. Tim, what seems to be the biggest influence in low sugar content? Water, drought, sun, tree anatomy, tree health, soil nutrients, something I've missed?

[MJPJ Sugars]

Nice run here in Georgia, VT over the last 24 hours... over 1 gpt on my simple spiles and buckets

My records show I was only over 1 gpt once all of last season.

[blissville maples]

Hey Bliss...wondering what you mean by this? Trees "wanting" to seed in the spring of 2021 wouldn't have an influence on the sugar content in the spring of 2021? The tree's energy isn't used in "wanting" to do something...just in the actual doing of it.

The research that was done a few years back relating lower sap sugar content to high seed production is largely BS for a bunch of reasons, the main one being that the researcher used syrup production to estimate sap sugar content across the region. Both Mike Farrell and I had met with him beforehand and told him that was a bad idea. The one big driver of the results was 2012, which had a low sap sugar content (ESTIMATED from syrup production) which followed a seed year in 2011. Of course, any maple producer who made syrup in 2012 knows what caused the low production that year...it was the 3-4 days of 70-80 deg F temperatures in mid-March...NOT low sap sugar.

Not saying there isn't any relationship between seed and sap sugar, but just that particular study wasn't worth the paper it was printed on.

So the spring of 2021, last spring, the trees were showing seeds starting to form as well as the first few buds were starting to open slightly, only a small percentage were unfolding you could see the leaf tips emerging. Then we had that final cold snap and it singed everything at that point which was very few slightly unfolded leaves, they had a very singed look as they tried to open further and didn't develop right, almost looked like they were chewed on. My hypothesis is that the trees were getting ready for seeds so they had a converted alot of carbs to sugar to do so and then never needed it for the seeds since they got froze a bit. Could this make the next year have high sugar since the trees were anticipating something that never happened, kind of like a bank account that never had that payment come out, now the account is stronger/bigger reserve

I have alot of red maples and a mix of small and large trees so if my sugar is at 1.8 I'm celebrating!? So 2.1/2.2 is a blessing!! I feel my smaller trees (alot are 8-10", and is why I use alot of 1/4" taps) is reason why I'm usually around .45 gpt I don't think I'll ever be over .5. although chainsaw been running alot last couple years!! And it does show in spots I've completed. In one releaser I have 3 lines coming in, one has 1200, one 1100 and the other 500. The 500 are all old growth 20" -30" trees and we're thinned by logger 8 years ago so they have responded well to this.. These 500 almost put out a gush the same as 1100! It has really highlighted some important facts about trees like yield and size correlation!!

I've a question, often wondered about. So as soon as leaves pop trees are making carbs? And as soon as they turn color in fall they are done being solar panels??

Another question. So when it's 20° at night trees have internal vaccum.does this change to pressure as soon as hits 32°? Or is there a couple hr delay? And on the flip side in the evening when it's gone from 40 to say 33 are trees 'pushing' or 'pulling' sap to the hole at that point when it's 33-34°? Hopefully all this makes sense

[blissville maples]

Managed to process about 14000 gals sap Friday and Saturday, made 285 gallons of some very light amber! Gave up a remote sugar Bush for more local taps. What a blessing not having to spend 2-3 hr a day driving. More time to be in woods, and finding ways to improve!

[billyinvt]

Looks like a nice two day run starting this afternoon. However, the forecast shows no freeze for the next several days. I'm having flashbacks from last season's earlier than normal buddy sap and abrupt end to sugaring.

[DrTimPerkins]

So the spring of 2021, last spring, the trees were showing seeds starting to form as well as the first few buds were starting to open slightly, only a small percentage were unfolding you could see the leaf tips emerging. Then we had that final cold snap and it singed everything at that point which was very few slightly unfolded leaves, they had a very singed look as they tried to open further and didn't develop right, almost looked like they were chewed on. My hypothesis is that the trees were getting ready for seeds so they had a converted alot of carbs to sugar to do so and then never needed it for the seeds since they got froze a bit.

Sounds like it was not seeds that got damaged, but flowers. These don't typically require a lot of energy to form, and if killed at the early stages the loss would be minimal in terms of affecting the overall carbohydrate status of affected trees. Most of the energy going into forming seeds happens during the actual growing season when there is (assuming good growing conditions) adequate carb supply available. If there isn't for some reason (drought being a big one), then the seeds can abort to cut the losses to the tree.

Could this make the next year have high sugar since the trees were anticipating something that never happened, kind of like a bank account that never had that payment come out, now the account is stronger/bigger reserve

Not really...the carb balance in the tree is accumulated, used, and dispersed over many years. The average sap sugar coming from a tree comes out to about 3 yrs old, but spans anyone from just a few months old to several decades old (but the average is 3 yrs). The sugar that makes up the sap we collect and syrup we make is derived from several years of growth and tree rings. Sugar tends to go down as we go deeper into the trunk (into older tree rings), partly because some of the sugar in older rings gets used up. There is also the issue of reduced hydraulic conductivity...vessels become less functional as we get deeper. So overall, more sugar and more sap from the outer rings to the inner rings.

Trees don't "anticipate" things the way people do. If the conditions are right, they'll respond. However, one of the conditions for something like producing seeds is to have adequate carbohydrate reserves to accomplish that. Trees that have decent sun exposure tend to have reasonable reserves. Some amount of that is lost when sapwood turns to heartwood in the tree. Any carbs left in those rings is cut off from the trees vascular system and thus no longer available.

I've a question, often wondered about. So as soon as leaves pop trees are making carbs? And as soon as they turn color in fall they are done being solar panels??

They are making some carbs early on, but it takes a little while (a few weeks depending on the weather) for photosynthetic function to ramp up to maximum productivity. Similarly, when they turn color in the fall there is some continued export of carbs for a while.

Another question. So when it's 20° at night trees have internal vaccum.does this change to pressure as soon as hits 32°? Or is there a couple hr delay? And on the flip side in the evening when it's gone from 40 to say 33 are trees 'pushing' or 'pulling' sap to the hole at that point when it's 33-34°? Hopefully all this makes sense

Great question. The first thing to keep in mind is that air temperature isn't the critical thing...it is sap temperature in the branches and stem, and wood doesn't change temperature nearly as quickly during freezing and thawing as air does and not all the wood is at the same temperature. The branches freeze first, and start to generate a vacuum immediately upon freezing. The transition from liquid to solid (liquid to ice) is critical. It causes a huge vapor pressure deficit (humidity is very low over ice compared to humidity when liquid is present), which helps to generate the negative pressure (vacuum) to result in water uptake. This vacuum is propagated through the rest of the tree as the tree branches/wood freezes, and eventually is transmitted down into the roots where water is drawn in. That is why a nice slow freeze is good for water uptake. What is kind of weird is that this occurs in different parts of the tree at different times since them temperature is not the same throughout. So for example, the core (or north side) of the tree may still be frozen, so not participate in flow or uptake at all. The branches might be freezing up, generating a suction, but the stem might still have some stem pressure in it for a time. Over time though there is this wave of suction that builds up and moves through the stem to cause uptake.

On the flip side, when the tree thaws, there is essentially no pressure at all, then all of a sudden the pressure spikes upward to a peak value, then stem pressure decays downward over the next few days as sap flows out.