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Thread: 2018 Bulk Price

  1. #41
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    Jan 2006
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    Oneida NY
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    While a national campaign could help a lot, I see no advantage to bundling the syrup into one pool. It is well documented that each area produces a syrup taste unique to that region. I feel that is why I do so well selling all of my syrup at retail.
    That was not always the case, in my early years I retailed it all, but then my production grew faster than my market, I then sold bulk for about 8 seasons. Then after 2015 I cut back and have only grown to meet my retail demand (from 1320 in 2015, to 725 in 2016 to 750 in 2017 and then 850 this season.
    I far prefer keeping marketing on a local level, thus I think local co-op's could be helpful but not state wide or even worse, regional. I realize that some producers might not be able to market all they make for various reasons, but I feel most should try to market more. This might be a place for even without a formal co-op or other arrangement, the local producers in each are might well benefit from keeping a list of what syrup other local producers have on hand that might be for sale. That way, as one runs low, they could buy from a local producer. This way there could easily be a price arrived at somewhere in between what bulk buyers pay and what bulk sellers sell for, making it a win/win for both parties. That would also help keep the regional flavors protected.
    I see part of the bulk price issue as being caused by too many needing their cash NOW , rather than waiting and I understand how that is, but the more producers are able to hold their bulk until a more local producer needs some, the better things will get.
    I know a single check looks good, but when you can make more by spreading it over a whole year just makes more sense (and more $). I'm just glad I can afford to wait and don't need the cash to pay debts right after the season because I borrow nothing to need to repay. The worst I have is on rare occasion I need to split a credit card and only pay a bill over 2 months, but 95% of the CC bills are paid in full each time. I also, have no other farm bills, even my home has no mortgage, my truck was bought cash, my tractor I paid cash and I realize in that respect I'm above the curve where most would not be able to do this.
    My advise towards that means, is accelerate your debt payments, and force yourself to pay them first, starting with the highest interest rate one and working back towards the lowest one. Then as you finish paying one debt off, put that amount towards the next. Do not think of it as a time to celebrate until the last one is paid in full. Then celebrate by paying yourself in a savings or investment. This worked wonders for me, however to get there we lived a little close to the belt until we were set.
    Dave Klish, I recently bought a 2x6 wood fired evaporator from A&A Sheet Metal which I will be converting to oil fired
    Now have solar, 2x6 finish pan, 5 bank 7x7 filter press, large water jacketed bottler, and tankless water heater.
    Recently bought another Gingerich RO, this one was a 125, but a second membrane was added thus is a 250, like I had.
    After running a 2x3, a 2x6, 3x8 tapping from 79 taps up to 1320 all woodfired, now I'm going to a 2x6 oil fired and a 200-425 taps.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Walpole, NH
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    1,466

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    Quote Originally Posted by maple flats View Post
    While a national campaign could help a lot, I see no advantage to bundling the syrup into one pool. It is well documented that each area produces a syrup taste unique to that region. I feel that is why I do so well selling all of my syrup at retail.
    That was not always the case, in my early years I retailed it all, but then my production grew faster than my market, I then sold bulk for about 8 seasons. Then after 2015 I cut back and have only grown to meet my retail demand (from 1320 in 2015, to 725 in 2016 to 750 in 2017 and then 850 this season.
    I far prefer keeping marketing on a local level, thus I think local co-op's could be helpful but not state wide or even worse, regional. I realize that some producers might not be able to market all they make for various reasons, but I feel most should try to market more. This might be a place for even without a formal co-op or other arrangement, the local producers in each are might well benefit from keeping a list of what syrup other local producers have on hand that might be for sale. That way, as one runs low, they could buy from a local producer. This way there could easily be a price arrived at somewhere in between what bulk buyers pay and what bulk sellers sell for, making it a win/win for both parties. That would also help keep the regional flavors protected.
    I see part of the bulk price issue as being caused by too many needing their cash NOW , rather than waiting and I understand how that is, but the more producers are able to hold their bulk until a more local producer needs some, the better things will get.
    I know a single check looks good, but when you can make more by spreading it over a whole year just makes more sense (and more $). I'm just glad I can afford to wait and don't need the cash to pay debts right after the season because I borrow nothing to need to repay. The worst I have is on rare occasion I need to split a credit card and only pay a bill over 2 months, but 95% of the CC bills are paid in full each time. I also, have no other farm bills, even my home has no mortgage, my truck was bought cash, my tractor I paid cash and I realize in that respect I'm above the curve where most would not be able to do this.
    My advise towards that means, is accelerate your debt payments, and force yourself to pay them first, starting with the highest interest rate one and working back towards the lowest one. Then as you finish paying one debt off, put that amount towards the next. Do not think of it as a time to celebrate until the last one is paid in full. Then celebrate by paying yourself in a savings or investment. This worked wonders for me, however to get there we lived a little close to the belt until we were set.
    Well said Dave. You are right on about regional flavors. Joining into one big group would make us a Cartel like Quebec. I think everyone wants more local control than that.
    Sugaring for 45+ years
    New Sugarhouse 14'x32'
    New to Me Algier 2'x8' wood fired evaporator
    2022 added a used RB25 RO Bucket
    250 mostly Sugar Maples, 15% Soft Maples. Currently,(110on 3/16" and 125 on Shurflo 4008 vacuum, 15 gravity), (16,000 before being disabled)
    1947 Farmall H and Wagon with gathering tank
    2012 Kubota with forks to move wood around

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Ashford, CT
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    946

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    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    Well said Dave. You are right on about regional flavors. Joining into one big group would make us a Cartel like Quebec. I think everyone wants more local control than that.
    I agree but I don't think there is any reason why you couldn't have a campaign about maple syrup in general, particularly American syrup. 2/3's of the country doesn't know the difference between the fake stuff and the real stuff. Plus, they probably just think of Canada. I can't tell you the number of restaurants that will tell you that they serve "real" maple syrup only to find out that it is the fake stuff. I sell at a lot of markets across the country and there's a lot of education when you leave "maple country" but the sale is easy after that.

    We could open up a lot of markets if there was a campaign simply about maple syrup in general. In particular, you bring up the regional flavors. I don't think many people know about that because outside of maple country they only get blended syrup (blends of different farms) and rarely from a single farm/region. If people knew that, I think it would be like wine where people would seek out different flavors which would lead to more sales in general. I think there's lots of ways that the market for syrup sales could be increased. We have the product, we just need the new markets and each of us alone can't do all that work!
    300 and growing taps
    2'x6' air tight arch
    Building a new sugarhouse in Ashford, CT
    My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/CapturedNature
    My eBook: Making Maple Syrup in your Backyard

  4. #44
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    UVM Proctor Maple Research Center, Underhill Ctr, VT
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    6,484

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    Quote Originally Posted by maple flats View Post
    My advise towards that means, is accelerate your debt payments, and force yourself to pay them first, starting with the highest interest rate one and working back towards the lowest one. Then as you finish paying one debt off, put that amount towards the next. Do not think of it as a time to celebrate until the last one is paid in full. Then celebrate by paying yourself in a savings or investment. This worked wonders for me, however to get there we lived a little close to the belt until we were set.
    Well that's just darn anti-American! JOKE JOKE JOKE

    More seriously, I agree. My philosophy has always been, it's not how much you make, it's how much you spend, and more importantly, how much you save. The goal is to work hard now, retire comfortably (and early) later.
    Last edited by DrTimPerkins; 01-31-2018 at 02:49 PM.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Ontario Canada
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    Well I guess it’s my turn. Look I don’t make too much syrup, 20 gallon or so most years. However it really made me stop and think one day when a local kid said he had never had maple syrup. Since then I send 2-3 gallons to the local schools every year for breakfast programs or special pancake days. I just couldn’t get that kids voice outa my head, it just didn’t seem right. If we want to make a change let’s start one litre or gallon at a time. That’s my 2 cents.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    Oneida NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTimPerkins View Post
    Well that's just darn anti-American! JOKE JOKE JOKE

    More seriously, I agree. My philosophy has always been, it's not how much you make, it's how much you spend, and more importantly, how much you save. The goal is to work hard now, retire comfortably (and early) later.
    Yea, I retired at 51 but after 2-3 weeks I got bored. I then started driving school bus and still had too much free time, so 4 years later I started making maple syrup. I drove for 19 years and finally retired at 69. I was then ready to retire, but I still do a little subbing driving bus, just not in maple season.
    Dave Klish, I recently bought a 2x6 wood fired evaporator from A&A Sheet Metal which I will be converting to oil fired
    Now have solar, 2x6 finish pan, 5 bank 7x7 filter press, large water jacketed bottler, and tankless water heater.
    Recently bought another Gingerich RO, this one was a 125, but a second membrane was added thus is a 250, like I had.
    After running a 2x3, a 2x6, 3x8 tapping from 79 taps up to 1320 all woodfired, now I'm going to a 2x6 oil fired and a 200-425 taps.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Ashford, CT
    Posts
    946

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    Quote Originally Posted by maple flats View Post
    Yea, I retired at 51 but after 2-3 weeks I got bored. I then started driving school bus and still had too much free time, so 4 years later I started making maple syrup. I drove for 19 years and finally retired at 69. I was then ready to retire, but I still do a little subbing driving bus, just not in maple season.
    Couldn't you fit a tank in the back of the school bus? Just remove a few seats - I think it would make an excellent sap hauler!
    300 and growing taps
    2'x6' air tight arch
    Building a new sugarhouse in Ashford, CT
    My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/CapturedNature
    My eBook: Making Maple Syrup in your Backyard

  8. #48
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    Nov 2003
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    Cabot Vt
    Posts
    450

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parker View Post
    but i think of the guys i know with 50k taps and thats alot of retailing......
    Retailing for the small guy is no doubt part of the answer. However, be careful what you wish for! Once the bigger guy does the same thing, he can compete on price, and he will. Don't believe me? Look at those Craigslist ads for $35/gal syrup.
    4X12 A+A Evaporator
    2500 taps, 1200 GPH RO
    Atv w/tracks
    5 generations
    http://www.talbertsmaplefarm.com/
    https://www.facebook.com/TalbertsMapleFarm?ref=hl

  9. #49
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    Dec 2005
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    Knapp, Wis
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    Quote Originally Posted by wdchuck View Post
    Retailing for the small guy is no doubt part of the answer. However, be careful what you wish for! Once the bigger guy does the same thing, he can compete on price, and he will. Don't believe me? Look at those Craigslist ads for $35/gal syrup.
    Wait.....we will soon see $25/gallon. Like you say, "race to the bottom."
    Mark

    Where we made syrup long before the trendies made it popular, now its just another commodity.

    John Deere 4000, 830, and 420 crawler
    1400 taps, 600 gph CDL RO, 4x12 wood-fired Leader, forced air and preheater. 400 gallon Sap-O-Matic vacuum gathering tank, PTO powered. 2500 gallon X truck tank, 17 bulk tanks.
    No cage tanks allowed on this farm!

  10. #50
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    Feb 2005
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    Fulton, NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert K View Post
    Well I guess it’s my turn. Look I don’t make too much syrup, 20 gallon or so most years. However it really made me stop and think one day when a local kid said he had never had maple syrup. Since then I send 2-3 gallons to the local schools every year for breakfast programs or special pancake days. I just couldn’t get that kids voice outa my head, it just didn’t seem right. If we want to make a change let’s start one litre or gallon at a time. That’s my 2 cents.
    I've been thinking the same way. Getting children the opportunity to have syrup seems like a huge deal to me. I'm planning to provide our church's summer camp in the Adirondacks with syrup for the summer. The director is very excited about it.
    Tim Whitens
    Willow Creek Farm
    Fulton, NY

    3000 on vacuum, 3hp 3ph Busch pump, 2567 Gast
    30X8 Leader oil-fired evap. w/ steamaway
    Airablo 1000 RO
    6 Alpacas

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