CV spouts or CV spout adapters?

[BAP]

I used 25 of the polycarbonate CV adapters and 200 of the black CV adapters last year. Previous, I had just used the black CV adapters. I found that the polycarbonate stayed in the trees better after a long period of bitter cold weather but did come off the black stubby a little harder.

[ennismaple]

The ball in the CV polycarbonate adapter is farther away from the stubby. The black adapter had the ball right in the back that goes into the adapter and is in close contact.

I asked Leader a few years ago if they were going to make a polycarbonate adapter. I was told definitely no because polycarbonate holds so well you would not get it off the adapter.

Then a year later Leader is selling them.

My question is were they full of it or are they hard to get off the stubby?

We've used clear polycarbonate adapters on stubbies for about 3 years now when the tubing is less than 2 years old. They are definitely harder to get off the stubby than the black CV's. Maybe 1 in 20 you need to use pliers to get the adapter off the stubby. If your hammer guy has a really heavy hand you sometimes need to cut the stubby off because you can't get them apart - but those are maybe 1 or 2 out of a 1,000 until you get the new guy trained!

The clear poly adapters do seal very well in the taphole. We've trying 350 of the clear CV adapters in one section of woods this spring to see if the extra $0.05 each is worthwhile.

[DrTimPerkins]

The ball in the CV polycarbonate adapter is farther away from the stubby. The black adapter had the ball right in the back that goes into the adapter and is in close contact.

Correct, so any "stubby" effect with a clear polycarbonate CV adapter is probably insignificant. We've not tested it.

I asked Leader a few years ago if they were going to make a polycarbonate adapter. I was told definitely no because polycarbonate holds so well you would not get it off the adapter.

Then a year later Leader is selling them.

Apparently enough people asked for them that they felt they should do it.

My question is were they full of it or are they hard to get off the stubby?

They are more difficult to get apart.

[Snowmad]

I put in a few stubbys with the CV spouts this year on some 2 year old line. I haven't actually tapped yet but I installed some of the stubbys and spouts. I found the stubby difficult to install with my normal spout installation tool. They are too fat to really work well. I don't know if someone has modified a single hand tool to install stubbies but if I were to use them more in the future I would want a better tool. I can see the labor savings in the future though and I like the idea of not loosing an inch or two of drop every year when cutting off the old spout. That being said, I am excited to try the new CV spouts Leader has come out with this year. I was at a meeting this fall and the rep said they have $30,000 invested in making the new CV spout in 3/16. They wanted to see if 3/16 would catch on first before making the tooling. Apparently, it has.

[meadster02]

Has anyone noticed at the end of the year when removing the cv adapter from the stubby how gummed up they seem to be. When I take them off the vacuum seems to increase a lot almost like it was stopping vacuum from getting to the tap hole. I have thought about just using the 7/16 to 5/16 adapter to see if it would stop that. has anyone else tried this and do you think it would decrease sap production

[DrTimPerkins]

Has anyone noticed at the end of the year when removing the cv adapter from the stubby how gummed up they seem to be.

At the end of the season ANY type of spout gums up, and you aren't going to get any sap from those tapholes regardless. By that point you've already gotten the benefit they were designed for. The CV adapter/spout was developed to lessen backflow of sap, thus delaying the natural tree wound response and resultant taphole drying. We can delay the response, but it can't be entirely stopped (and we wouldn't want to).

[markcasper]

At the end of the season ANY type of spout gums up, and you aren't going to get any sap from those tapholes regardless.

Actually Dr., I am not in agreement with "any" spout "gumming" up. On the contrary, I see many cv2's running well after the season has ended. It is amazing to see them running 2 weeks after the season has ended and they are breaking bud. I have used Lappierre clear spouts,( non checkvalve), and would rarely see any of those running even with new drops! So if seeing what i witness is not proof, I don't know what is??? I have never really seen one of those gummed up where it would stop the flow. I'm thinking the clear poly ones to fit the stubbies will have the same effect.

[markcasper]

Sorry for being unclear -- I will try to clarify.

I don't believe that Leader Evaporator makes a clear polycarbonate stubby, but it's been a few months since I chatted with them, so I can't say for sure. They do now make a CV adapter in polycarbonate along with the original black nylon CV adapter (and the polycarbonate CV spout). To clarify that, since not everyone knows or uses the same terminology, a spout is a single piece with an end that goes into the tree and an end that connects to tubing. An spout adapter or adapterhas an end that goes into the tree, and needs to be paired with a stubby to connect to tubing in order to function. A stubby (or stub spoutconnects to the tubing and a spout adapter to form a complete spout assembly. Typically spouts or spout adapters and other fittings come in polycarbonate (usually clear or lightly-tinted translucent) or nylon (solid black or some other solid color). Some newer style spouts are also being made of a different material. Note that not all stubby and adapter combinations will work together.

After several years of sanitation research at UVM PMRC, we determined that with a black stubby and a black (original) CV adapter, that we could see a very small "used stubby" effect, in that after reusing a stubby for several years, it could cause a very slight reduction in sap yield compared to using a new stubby/CV adapter annually (which is something most people wouldn't do anyway). Again....it was very small, on the order of 1-2%, but it was there. We think it is because the small fingers of the CV adapter are in very close contact with the used stubby, and picking up microbes. Since the CV ball rolls around some during normal use, it was picking up some contamination from the stubby and transferring it back into the taphole. Please don't misunderstand....there was still a HUGE benefit to using the CV adapter in this case, just that it was very slightly less than using a totally new stubby/CV adapter.

I have always thought the same thing......where do you draw the line as far as considering bacterial infection? I mean say you have a cv2 and or a clear cv spout with stubby. Since the cv2 is getting sap further down the line and further away from the hole without hitting old plastic, it is my opinion (also what i have witnessed) that these will still keep running the longest and offer the best bacterial protection. The cv new clear spout is still going to be closer to contamination by a stubby (going off the top of my head, may be as much as 2"). So what I am trying to say is the clear straight cv will probably not perform as well as a cv2, regardless of whether the ball got moved closer or farther away from the stubby.

I'm wondering how much the black versus clear difference there is? My strategy is to use the clear ones on the south sides of trees, and the black ones on the north. As well, any ultra early taps will all be clear regardless. It sucked last year, I wanted to use them, Leader advertised them and then was told they were out of stock, not in yet, blah, blah, blah. Disappointed that they were heavily advertised, and at least in Wisconsin, were not here for the season!

[markcasper]

The clear poly adapters do seal very well in the taphole. We've trying 350 of the clear CV adapters in one section of woods this spring to see if the extra $0.05 each is worthwhile.

Actually there is only a .3 cents difference. And your now going to pay .2 cents more for either.

Sucks they figure they can raise them in price, while we producers are lowering the price for our product. If this kind of price gouging keeps up, it will not be good for anyone!!!

[DrTimPerkins]

I wanted to use them, Leader advertised them and then was told they were out of stock, not in yet, blah, blah, blah. Disappointed that they were heavily advertised, and at least in Wisconsin, were not here for the season!

I think they expected them earlier, but for some reason (unknown to me), they didn’t get them out until later. We too got them late. Only were able to get a hundred or so out to test as we had already tapped our woods.