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Thread: Checking what VT sugar makers are doing

  1. #1311
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
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    Campton, NH
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    733

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    Thank you for explaing why the grade color can become lighter after prolonged cold spell during a maple season. I was wondering about this earlier today. I hope the temperatures moderate after this freeze up so that the season is extended!
    1,200 taps on USFS land, 3x8 King w/Steamaway. Lapierre RO.

  2. #1312
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Dummerston, VT
    Posts
    14

    Default Thanks so much Dr. Tim!!!

    Thank you so much for that response!! Exactly the info I was looking for. So cool!!


    Quote Originally Posted by DrTimPerkins View Post
    Good to hear that your season is going well.

    Buds don't really affect flavor....until they do....meaning that when it turns buddy, the season is basically done. Almost like a switch, although sometimes there is a little "pre-bud" and sometimes (rarely) a real cold snap can cause the a slight buddy off-flavor to recede temporarily. This is caused by a change in the amino acid composition in the sap due to bud development. Active buds release a suite of amino acids into the sap.....which make the sap taste terrible. They do this only at and after budbreak. Any "pre-bud" flavor is due to some trees in the system having started to bud, but most have not. Usually it's just a short time period before they all pop.

    Regular flavor development in syrup is fairly complex, however it is the microbes in the system converting sucrose to invert sugar, and the combination with various amino and organic acids in sap that results in darker color/stronger flavor (one of the most common organic acids is malic acid....the compound which also gives apples their tartness....malic acid is a major constituent of niter -- calcium malate). More microbes when it is warm, thus darker syrup. When you have a cold snap, you kill off some of the microbes, therefore less sucrose inversion so the grade comes back up. In rare circumstances, near the very end, the sap pH can get so low that the color can lighten due to reduced "alkaline degradation" during boiling. That'll make light syrup with a not so great flavor.

  3. #1313
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Fulton, NY
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    1,375

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTimPerkins View Post
    Good to hear that your season is going well.

    Buds don't really affect flavor....until they do....meaning that when it turns buddy, the season is basically done. Almost like a switch, although sometimes there is a little "pre-bud" and sometimes (rarely) a real cold snap can cause the a slight buddy off-flavor to recede temporarily. This is caused by a change in the amino acid composition in the sap due to bud development. Active buds release a suite of amino acids into the sap.....which make the sap taste terrible. They do this only at and after budbreak. Any "pre-bud" flavor is due to some trees in the system having started to bud, but most have not. Usually it's just a short time period before they all pop.)
    Hi Doc,

    Not sure if I'm experiencing that temporary bud recession or what, but my syrup has gone from what I thought was buddy, to good flavored, overnight! I even had about 7-8 gallons of finished syrup that I put back in the front pan from yesterday, as I didn't have the filter press ready. It had very bitter aftertaste. When dumping back in today, it tasted fine. Couldn't believe it!

    Here's hoping I have another good day or two! And I almost started pulling taps yesterday, but I found out buddy isn't worthless, after a call to Bascom's. Wife said finish what I had, but it's been running so hard, I decided to keep going.
    Last edited by DrTimPerkins; 03-23-2016 at 08:08 AM.
    Tim Whitens
    Willow Creek Farm
    Fulton, NY

    3000 on vacuum, 3hp 3ph Busch pump, 2567 Gast
    30X8 Leader oil-fired evap. w/ steamaway
    Airablo 1000 RO
    6 Alpacas

  4. #1314
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    BECKLEY, WV (SUGARHOUSE DAWSON, WV)
    Posts
    6,621

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    Dr Tim,

    When the reds start the flowering bud is the sap still good until they start the leaf bud and same with sugars?? Seems most of the time my reds get to that they are done running anyway.
    Brandon

    CDL dealer for All of West Virginia & Virginia
    3x10 CDL Deluxe oil fired
    Kubota M7040 4x4 Tractor w/ 1153 Loader hauling sap
    2,400+ taps on 3/16 CDL natural vacuum on 9 properties
    24x56 sugarhouse
    CDL 1,000 2 post RO


    WEBSITE: http://danielsmaple.com

  5. #1315
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    bennington vermont
    Posts
    25

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    Sap has started running again here in the Bennington area....northern exposure....todays run tested 2.4% and as of 8pm the run was still steady....all gravity

  6. #1316
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Jonesville, Vermont
    Posts
    46

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    Sap ran well for me here on the western slope of Chittenden county. Kicked in around noon and is still going. SC did not improve with the last freeze. Starting to believe the old say “Weak sap means a long season”...... Lots to learn.
    425 trees on Vacuum
    Airiblo 3/4
    100 buckets
    Lapierre Mechanical releaser
    L3700 SU

  7. #1317
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Georgia, VT
    Posts
    73

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    Steady drip-drip-drip in Georgia, VT here tonight. Crystal clear... Reminds me of 2 Saturday's ago at the start of that 4-day non-stop run.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  8. #1318
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Barnet, VT
    Posts
    2,580

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    200 gallons in my woods tank at 5:00. Temp had been dropping to 30. Went up on hill to check tank just barely. Temp was 31. Almost 600 in tank. Releaser had froze stuck open. Sap started pouring out dry line before I got Releaser straightened out. And had warmed up to 33 in about 10 minutes. Hold on guys. It is coming.
    William
    950 taps
    3 X 12 Thor pans on a Brian Arch
    CDL 600 expandable

  9. #1319
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Readsboro, VT
    Posts
    335

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    Southwestern Vermont is flowing on my west facing mountainside! Turned vacuum on at 1pm, and in 12 hours I have 300 gallons in the tank from my 330 taps. Flowing at 30 gph right now under 23" and 1.5%, again.... and just below my average of 1.7, so I am not complaining now that I have my RO running so good. I just tested it today with my improvements. Nearly 2 gpd per tap! 30's mostly, so gravity is plugging along..
    Looks like a good week ahead. Supposed to freeze again here Friday night, maybe Saturday night, and again next Tuesday night. Good cycles if all goes well! No temps over low to mid 50's so, I hope the trees stay sleepy.
    Then comes April...
    Last edited by DoubleBrookMaple; 03-23-2016 at 12:23 AM.
    Eric of the Greens... I Fly Solo...
    2013-15 Block arch to having it all...
    2016...320 on vacuum. 155 gravity, 90 buckets.
    All homemade equipment except Smokey Lake pans.
    2x6 arch, Electric releaser w/ Gast 1023 24" vacuum
    2x4x40 RO w/ dual 265gph Procons
    My PWS with webcam... https://www.wunderground.com/persona...READS2#history

  10. #1320
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Cabot Vt
    Posts
    449

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    Sap ran well all day yesterday and then continued overnight- temps went to 34, but my releasers never froze up. Go figure!...My new tanks with A gallon and a half per tap capacity are just about to overflow. C'mon Dad,wake up and start hauling!
    4X12 A+A Evaporator
    2500 taps, 1200 GPH RO
    Atv w/tracks
    5 generations
    http://www.talbertsmaplefarm.com/
    https://www.facebook.com/TalbertsMapleFarm?ref=hl

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