at what point is sugaring profitable?

[Russell Lampron]

hey all, sugaring gets you out of the house at the best time, keeps you busy, and when you pick your head up for a breath in april, the snow is gone and the grass is starting. the birds are back and you just lost six weeks of winter. some folks pay lots of money going to florida just to do the same thing. and if your lucky, you have enough cash to buy seed and fertilizer to lose more money farming. you can't have this much fun at a carnival.

Word of wisdom right here. A big part of the reason that I make maple syrup is because it gives me something to do when I can't really do anything else. It's too late for winter sports like snowmobiling and too early for spring and summer sports like camping and going to the beach. It's fun to watch the snow disappear and the trees come back to life after a cold winter. It's also fun to show off your stuff and talk maple to anyone that will listen. And the best part is the delicious maple syrup that I make.

A lot of good points have been made in this thread so far and here's my story. I do this as a hobby that pays for itself. I take pride in the fact that I have never borrowed any money to build my little sugaring empire. I built and then remodeled and expanded my sugar house with the lumber from trees that were cut on my property. I bought my evaporator, RO machine, vacuum pump, releaser and all of the tanks and pumps that I needed with money that I got from the syrup that I made and sold. Do I make a profit? Hell no! Could I make a living doing this? Maybe if I added more taps. Do I want to try to make a living doing this? Hell no! That would take all of the fun out of it.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Dilly dilly

[BryanEx]

I received an automated update to this discussion and had forgotten all about it. I still stand by my numbers today but admittedly have out grown the whole make it yourself thing. Currently at 300 taps but expanding to 1500 this year which rules out the small equipment needed to make it work. The funny part is the agri-tourism profits as a small producer will likely be the same as a larger (but still small scale) bulk producer. Just saying the small guys can make some decent coin if willing to think outside the box.

[BreezyHill]

I agree with all that value the time spent enjoying the sugaring vacation.

From a numbers stand point profitability is simple if you spread the cost of the "toys" over a practical period of time. Take an RO I am using a 1982 Memtek that my dad bought as a demo unit. 2012 it got new vessels and this summer it will have a membrane cart made to utilize the high pressure pumps capacity with todays high performance membrane advances.

When one spreads the cost out over the real life of the machinery the cost comes to very low numbers...provided you take good care of your equipment.

The hard part will be calculating the price we all will be getting for our product in the future. $10 per quart at Sam's is going to put many operations in the read if they need to reduce their prices to this point.

Where is the price of oil going to be for next season?
Are you using AUF-AOF for better wood efficiency?
Are you including paying yourself a wage that you could have someone do your job?

Our operation currently does not include hauling of sap. It all is vacuumed to the sugarhouse. Equipment is all paid off but I want a new rig that will be used in a new location for boiling. but I can get a new oil rig to last 20 years with good maintance.

So it is possible to show profit when amortizing your cost...but when filing a schedule C you will often not show a profit for 7 years unless you are buying preowned gear and working hard to maximize your production and utilize all you equipment to its maximum capacity.

Just remember that a vacation is a change of pace for a period of time. Sugaring for me is a vacation...but so was snowmobiling til 2 am, 18 hour days during fair season, driving 3-8 hours to watch a sons collaged soccer game just to turn around a drive home.

Lets face the facts: If you are on here you have an addiction,
You are at least 50% crazy in your neighbors eyes,
but we are the envy of thousands who would give all they have to trade places with us.

So remember to value the life we live and have built, at an appropriate value...Priceless!

[Robert K]

Love it , agreed. Is it time to tap yet????

[DrTimPerkins]

Here's my advice, make sure you either make a lot of syrup to sell bulk or sell it all yourself retail. Keep away from wholesaling, supplies cost the same but lower return on each bottle. Have patience, it may take a couple years for you to make a profit. Be great with all your customers. Don't belittle the competition, customers like happy farmers..Keep the "toys" to a minimum. Buy what you need to make good syrup and that's it. Do you need the 4 wheeler or can you walk the woods, walking is cheaper and healthier. Stand your ground if need be, maple is a competitive industry. Lastly, expect to work harder than 95% of the people on the earth, but enjoy your job more than 95% also. My two cents.

This advice was worth far more than it was offered at.

The only thing I would say additionally is that typically producers make money in the woods, but they spend it in the sugarhouse.

To put some actual data to it. http://blog.uvm.edu/farmvia/?page_id=394

[maple flats]

Both of the replies in the above post are good advice. I spent a few hours visiting mountainvan, he is a wealth of knowledge, mostly from the college of Hard Knocks, Dr. Tim on the other hand has the formal education and the scientific testing experience, thus he has the knowledge too, in spades.