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Thread: at what point is sugaring profitable?

  1. #21
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    New Hartford, N.Y.
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    2,093

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    This thread has been interesting. I've enjoyed reading about everybodys set-up's, situations and reasons for making syrup. I've thought long and hard recently about wether to "forge ahead" and make my operation a full blown business or just keep going with what it is now- a very enjoyable hobby that turns a reasonable profit.

    My fondness for sugaring, ability to weld, ingenuity, many nearby tree's, free wood, and upgrading when I could as I went along, has allowed me to build up what a lot of folks have called a pretty elaborate backyard operation. Necessities like evaporator modifications came first, and then to recent niceties like a canner and auto-drawoff, I'm happy with what I have. Its all paid for- I've reinvested most of what I've made, leaving a little "surplus" for whatever I see fit.

    The only thing missing from what I would call a professional maple operation is a sugarhouse. A lot of soul searching has to go into a decision like that. That would be a huge investment. A lot of questions come up- do I want to pay on a loan for it, how much should I consider spending on a sugarhouse, do I even want to build it at this location, would I or would'nt I be happy going to the next "level", etc., etc., etc. You can lay awake at night thinking about this stuff.

    My operation now is profitable and I know I could make the next "level" profitable in time. I have to try and figure out which degree of profitability will I be happy with? I think thats what everyone here is either struggling with or has struggled with in the past, and everyone's answer is different due to circumstances.

    I'll keep pondering the sugarhouse for now...

    Steve
    2014 Upgrades!: 24x40 sugarhouse & 30"x10' Lapierre welded pans, wood fired w/ forced draft, homemade hood & preheater
    400 taps- half on gravity 5/16, half on gravity 3/16
    Airablo R.O. machine - in the house basement!
    Ford F-350 4x4 sap gatherer
    An assortment of barrels, cage tanks & bulk tanks- with one operational for cooling/holding concentrate
    And a few puzzled neighbors...

    http://s606.photobucket.com/albums/t...uckethead1920/

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Hinesburg, Vermont
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    83

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    My thoughts are everybody needs a hobby. Some hobbys make money others do not. As long as it stays a hobby and does not become work it stays fun. I to have thought of trying to make it a full time job. Right now I enjoy working the woods and the sugar house. Also toying with the Idea of buying a tractor and farmi winch just to make playing in the woods more fun. My first hobby for 22 years was racing stock cars and it was fun but by no means did I make a profit doing that compared to what sugaring does. Just my two cents worth. MC
    5 by 16 Thunderbolt with hoods and preheater
    Springtec 800 RO
    Sihi Liquid Ring Vacuum Pump
    5000 Taps On Vacuum for 2013

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Catskill Mountains
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    1,863

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    Here's my advice, make sure you either make a lot of syrup to sell bulk or sell it all yourself retail. Keep away from wholesaling, supplies cost the same but lower return on each bottle. Have patience, it may take a couple years for you to make a profit. Be great with all your customers. Don't belittle the competition, customers like happy farmers..Keep the "toys" to a minimum. Buy what you need to make good syrup and that's it. Do you need the 4 wheeler or can you walk the woods, walking is cheaper and healthier. Stand your ground if need be, maple is a competitive industry. Lastly, expect to work harder than 95% of the people on the earth, but enjoy your job more than 95% also. My two cents.

  4. #24
    mitchmaple Guest

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    hey all, sugaring gets you out of the house at the best time, keeps you busy, and when you pick your head up for a breath in april, the snow is gone and the grass is starting. the birds are back and you just lost six weeks of winter. some folks pay lots of money going to florida just to do the same thing. and if your lucky, you have enough cash to buy seed and fertilizer to lose more money farming. you can't have this much fun at a carnival.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oneida NY
    Posts
    11,547

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    I'm beginning to think you start making a profit when you stop growing and get everything paid for. Now, mind you paid for to me is when I pay myself back for everything I bought. I have never borrowed from any instatution for mapling except for a month or 2 leading up to any season using my credit card and paying off during the season. I limit that too. Thinking about it, making money at maple might be the same as any other farming, when you retire or die and everything is sold off.
    Maple is just in our blood and way too enjoyable to worry about making money. Think of it, you don't need to pay a health club dues for a stair climber, just walk your lines. No sleep doctor bills, just go to bed when you can't stay awake anymore. You don't need to buy a vacation home with all of the relates expenses, because you don't have time nor do you feel a need to get away from everything, just work in the sugarhouse or in the woods. All of your worries evaporate (pun intended)
    Dave Klish, I recently ordered a 2x6 wood fired evaporator from A&A Sheet Metal which I will be converting to oil fired
    Now have solar, 2x6 finish pan, 5 bank 7x7 filter press, large water jacketed bottler, and tankless water heater.
    Recently bought another Gingerich RO, this one was a 125, but a second membrane was added thus is a 250, like I had.
    After running a 2x3, a 2x6, 3x8 tapping from 79 taps up to 1320 all woodfired, now I'm going to a 2x6 oil fired and a 200-425 taps.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Richfield, WI
    Posts
    456

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    This morning I stopped in at a neighbor's place to have him plane some lumber for me and when we were done I asked him about his sugaring operation just to see what I could learn and he was more than happy to show me his set up. He has three different "evaporators" which are all basic flat pans set up on very crude firebox's. He welded them all up himself out of whatever he could find. The pans are mostly leftover stainless steel industrial sinks that he got for free from various locations and the firebox's are whatever scrap steel he could find. Truly nothing fancy about it although he is a very talented welder. The pans are wavy-bottomed, the draw-off valves are simple pipe fittings, there's no forced-draft, no over the fire air, no firebrick, no sugarhouse. Pre-heat is done by setting pans of sap on sections of the firebox behind the pans and there's no sugarhouse, just tin roofing strapped on over the pans. Truly a backyard operation. I asked him how much he made every year and he told me 90 gallons. I couldn't believe it. Looking at that setup I was shocked that he could produce 90 gallons of syrup, but what really floored me was that he then told me that he sold every bit of it and wished he could make more. Seeing as how he has only a couple of dollars invested in each of his three evaporators nearly every penny of those 90 gallons of syrup is profit. Even if he sold at $12 a quart, he's likely to have made about $4000+. Granted, he's retired and has a lot more time on his hands than many so a flat pan works for him despite it's slow evaporation rate, but I think it's safe to say that in his case, it's pretty profitable. Overall, it was an interesting conversation and a bit of an eye-opener as to what a person really needs for a backyard operation and how it can be profitable just the same.
    Homemade 2X4 w/Flat Pan
    50 taps....but always looking to expand
    Mostly box elders with a scattering of red, silver, & sugar maples
    Allis Chalmers C & Homemade Sap Sled

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    east kingston, nh
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    4,148

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    Quote Originally Posted by MapleChaser View Post
    My thoughts are everybody needs a hobby. Some hobbys make money others do not. As long as it stays a hobby and does not become work it stays fun. I to have thought of trying to make it a full time job. Right now I enjoy working the woods and the sugar house. Also toying with the Idea of buying a tractor and farmi winch just to make playing in the woods more fun. My first hobby for 22 years was racing stock cars and it was fun but by no means did I make a profit doing that compared to what sugaring does. Just my two cents worth. MC
    I like this one. the problem is I have too many hobbies and when a new one becomes a front runner(right now maple) the other go to the back burner.

    BEFORE I HAD KIDS!!!! crazy term but anyway. there was hunting, bass fishing, fly fishing, ice fishing, striper fishing,bird, duck, deer, rabbit,squirrel hunting, Golf, Softball played in 2 leagues arch pitch and fast pitch. anyway did alot of stuff.

    then things changed...had kids, bought a house, man those 2 things will set you back wow. Now things on the house are going good still projects but its getting there. and kids are now 4 and 7 so that gives you just enough time to get back into things a little and what do I do !!!!!@#$@#$ maple syrup!!!!
    may your sap be at 3%
    Brad

    www.willowcreeksugarhouse.com
    585 or so on Vacuum, about 35 on buckets/sap sacs
    Atlas Copco GVS 25A Rotary Vane vacuum pump
    MES horizontal electric releaser
    2x6 ss phaneuf Drop flue, Leader woodsaver blower, homemade hood
    300gph H2O RO
    husquvarna 562 XP
    Its Here!!! 2024 season is here get busy!!!

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Ayer's Cliff Quebec
    Posts
    3,185

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    I know that people would laugh at my evaporator also. It's made up or SS sinks and a barrel and lots of scrap angle iron. I wouldn't bother if I had to buy a real evaporator and such. I made 20 gallons with a 16inch by 18inch pan last year. I was pretty well wasted boiling from 7 in the morning to sometimes 3 the next morning but I got it all done. Was actually sorry to see the trees dry up as I would have continued boiling if the trees kept producing.
    I can only boil at night and weekends this year so I had to improve a bit to speed things up and find more storage as I was looking a empty rubber boots last season. Around here anything is hard to come by and you can't ask anybody for info so I have to make do with what I can find on my own.
    maybe 50 taps for 2011
    Finally ready to boil when I get enough sap
    I just might be crazy.( make that I know I am)
    Trees all tapped except the ones with 5 feet of snow.
    Enough rabbits to keep Elmer busy..

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    needham, MA
    Posts
    160

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    This is a great thread. Very interesting....
    Before I started sugaring, I bought a gallon or so of syrup every year from a sugar house. I couldn't imagine how they didn't turn a profit...
    Now that I've tried it, I can't imagine how they do it at all.

    The curve ball in all this is that the season is only (about) five weeks long. Seeing some of the $$ numbers people are posting, for some it COULD annualize out to a living wage. But the season is so short I think the best way to think about the money is as a moderately profitable short term, seasonal work. Kind of like working retail during the Christmas season.

    Of course, sugaring is a lot more fun than retail work.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    New Hartford, N.Y.
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    2,093

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    Once the sap starts running, it is like Christmas! I look forward to the first sap like I looked forward to X-mas as a kid!!

    Steve
    2014 Upgrades!: 24x40 sugarhouse & 30"x10' Lapierre welded pans, wood fired w/ forced draft, homemade hood & preheater
    400 taps- half on gravity 5/16, half on gravity 3/16
    Airablo R.O. machine - in the house basement!
    Ford F-350 4x4 sap gatherer
    An assortment of barrels, cage tanks & bulk tanks- with one operational for cooling/holding concentrate
    And a few puzzled neighbors...

    http://s606.photobucket.com/albums/t...uckethead1920/

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