at what point is sugaring profitable?

[farmall h]

I have canned probably a good 1/3 of my syrup over the years but am getting tired of sitting on it so from now on I will can probably 15 gal. and bulk the rest. Get the check and run if you know what I mean. Less expense on cans/jugs. As long as it is self supportive your doing alright. I don't have an RO, no hoods, no oil, still pretty much the same as when I started, just bigger arch and pans (1990).

[woodsmith]

I agree that we deal with this obsession for the love of sugaring and being in the woods, etc, and I hope that never changes because it is absolutely the best therapy I can think of for cabin fever!! Only a couple more weeks and away we go!

[red maples]

I was thinking about this one the other day when I was splitting wood kinda of a mindless job. And reading through some of the threads. And the meaning of "profit" and not just the monitary sence of the word. the enjoyment of getting outside(although cold now) being out in nature, excersize, fun, bringing people together(and random people show up if they see steam)!!! hanging out with the kids in the sugarhouse and the enjoyment of it all...I think the money is second here. As my wife says some times the jouney is the destination.

[Hop Kiln Road]

I also think the intangibles are the most important, however I'm a capitalist. So this is how I look at it: Raw Material X Production X Sales = Profit

Playing with my equation, sap X steam X sales, I find the sales are the most important variable. If you can sell syrup for a high price, then whether it costs $20 or $60 gal to produce isn't as important. Next is raw material quality, the % of sugar in the sap. If you are gathering 4% sap, how it is boiled isn't as important. Of least importance to profit is how you boil the sap and unfortunately where most spend their capital... shiny equipment that sits idle 95% of the year.

So if you are gather 3.5% sap and sell syrup for $85 a gal you can then decide how much capital to invest in steam production by projecting your gal/hr of evaporation need.

Small producers can make money with a careful marketing plan and investing in their trees.

Bruce

[muddyfootprints]

This has been a very interesting thread to see others thoughts of why they are doing this. I know the first year I did this was for my Daughter, 5 at the time. what she got out of it and what I did, was memories that will last a life time.
My second year I got my son out there 3 1/2 he was more interested in hitting sticks on trees but it gave him and myself a lot of enjoyment. We had more friends and family show up and it was great fun for everyone. Almost everyone wanted to do something, some of the most fun was watching people try to split wood. Everything was outside,it was hard work, the nights went long, and the beer stayed cold until it was consumed, but the real reward / profit was the time with friends and family.

this year will be a bit different, cooking inside and spent a bunch more money of course. but hope to have more friends and family over, if I can sell some syrup and cover some cost great if not oh well. For me its about the adventure. I don't want it to become something that I have to feel like I have to make money at, there is too may variables and that would just ad stress to what I want to be fun for me and my family and friends.

[Ridgeland Farm]

Ive been putting a lot of thought into making maple a career for myself. I did follow one of the steps listed earlier in the tread though! I married a beautifull girl who in a year will have a very good paying job in the medical field! So the health insurance will be all set too! So this does make things a little easier for me. It all depends on how far you want to take it and if you have the resources to take it that far. as far as making a profit I think there are to many varriables to put any type of statisticle chart out there! Like some one else said... do you buy all the fancy stuff every year or do you buy only what you need to. The number of taps you have does play a factor to some extent. But again it can come down to how much did you have to pay to get to that number of taps? lets take 2 setups that both have 200 taps with all identicle taps fittings vac. levels ect. however setup 1 could get all 200 taps on 1 mainline 800ft long but the setup 2 was more spaced out and took 3 mainlines 600ft long. even if they produced the same amount of sap setup 1 will pay off and turn a profit faster. I know its simple and pretty obviouse but it can be easy to overlook. and thats only half of it. setup 2 could produce more finished product because it had more sugar maples so the sap was sweeter, or maybe the sun exposure was better on one setup than the other. there are so many things to take into consideration. It can drive you crazy thinking about it all! Another part is how much time do you spend in the woods durring the season? this is especially important for those who run vacuum. an air tight system is so important to produce higher sap yields. I help a producer that makes 1/3 gallon of syrup per tree on more than 65% soft maples. and if you ask him what the biggest factor is he will tell you ...... checking for leaks. I am no pro at this by any means. my screen name says it all! But we can learn so much about what to do and what not to do from other producers. Most of them have no problem sharing how they run thier operation. Thier past mistakes that they have corrected along with all the new research that is going on by UVM and others is making it more and more attainable to turn a profite in this industry! sorry for the long post!

[KenWP]

I will have to say that just makeing syrup is a adventure. If I cam make a couple bucks to cover costs and have lots for myself so be it. I love feeding wood to the fire and such. The long hours when I get cold suck. If I can get inside some day it will be nice and then I can read warm while boiling.
This year I am hopefully going to be quicker and shorten boil times. I have not idea what even break even would be anymore. Just going to try my best and have fun. I never have company most nights unless you count the wild cats but as long as I have something to read I do okay. Would take a lot of work to make any money on this profect me thinks.

[ebourassa]

I made a promise to myself (aka my wife) that i would no longer put my own money into this, but everything i sell i get to use to buy new equipment for making syrup, i took last years proceeds and bouht a new preheater and hood, and some supplies, so the more syrup i can make the more stuff i can buy, I try to look at it as a self supporting hobby now, i know to me if i was to make money personally you kind lose the hobby feeling and it turns more into work and i dont want that, i enjoy doing this and if I counted on it for income it would take the fun out of it for me. no pun inteded!!!!!!!!

Erik

[michiganfarmer]

Ive heard a lot of "my syrup money goes for up grades". Ive been doing that for about 8 years. My plan is to built up to make at least 500 gallons of syrup per year. I dlike to be able to make 1000 gallons. I have a 3x12, and I intend on buying a neighbors used 600 gph ro.

I do it because i love being outside, and working for myself. I grew up on a dairy farm. I like working wiht nature. I like taping trees. I like collecting sap. I like feeding the eveporator. I love eating syrup. I just love everything about making syrup except the end of the season. If I can make enouhg profit to provide me wiht a yearly income I dont care too much about the hours of labor it takes.

[BryanEx]

This is a super thread and I want to thank those of you with larger operations for sharing some of your numbers because I've often been curious as to how you make it work given expenses and labour.

If "profitable" means making a living exclusively from maple it rules me out. If profitable means more revenue than expenses... I'm in. I typically run 45 taps, boil only on weekends and occasionally Wednesday night if I have too much sap to entertain with (I'll explain that in a second), and only sell directly to a few customers. My operation is based on families coming out and making their own syrup using mostly traditional methods and learning all about how to do it in the process. My first season payed for all the equipment and my learning process while I got things figured... in other words I worked for free or 0 labour costs factored in.

Since my second season I've been netting between $2400 and $2600 with plans on adding a second evaporator if I can get the timing and/or schedule figured out correctly so I'm not spinning too many plates at the same time. Add in the fact that my expenses are tax deductible from my day job under Ontario Farm tax laws and the net gets even better. Round all that to 3 Grand and that's not bad at all for 45 taps and a hobby I'd be doing anyway for only 4 ~ 6 weekends a year... when I'm itching to get out of the house anyway.