I wasn't saying the Force 5 was bad, but rather making the point that nothing is ever as good as advertised. (Lapierre claims firebox temps of 2100 degrees F and the actual readings were down around 1600, maybe 1700. Their same advertisement states that a normal evaporator can achieve 1600 degrees, and this figure is likely reduced as an advertising gimmick.) There's always going to be something, big or small, that is going to take away from the proclaimed efficiency. As far as the evaporation rate is concerned, all math aside, to get 200gph on that evaporator the amount of liquid coming in will have to at least double what I saw at the demonstration. That flow was about the same as what I see between the SteamAway and the flue pan on our 3x12, probably even a little less. Factor in boiling sap instead of water and then draw offs and it will surely go up, but up by 100 gallons? Hopefully I'll be surprised!
Last edited by DS Maple; 12-10-2009 at 12:45 PM.
Scott
UNH Environmental Research Group
Dublin School "Maple Guy"
Around 1300 taps for 2010
3x12 Grimm and Steam Away
2 1-ton trucks, Polaris Ranger, plenty of tractors
http://www.dublinschool.org/home/con...student%20life
www.collsfarmllc.com
Josh - I was there a little earlier, probably around noon. What I thought was most impressive was the 1000 degree temperature difference between the firebox and sensor 12" up the stack. So the firebox was at 1650 and the stack at 650 and the machine wasn't running too hard. My experience, on a 2X6 admittedly, is a stack temp of only 650 won't produce much of a boil in a conventional rig. So I suspect that the over fire turbulance not only forces the gases back into the fire but it also slows down the exhaust velocity of the machine, which in turn allows more heat to be absorbed by the flue pan. And maybe Steve can comment on this, in the larger units isn't it going to ultimately safer and more manageable to have a pressurized vessel and use steam to boil the sap? Bruce
Bruce Treat
825 Sugar Maple Taps
3/16 w/ DSD .225 Spiles
H2O RO
H2O 2.5 X 8
Bow, New Hampshire
Hi Bruce,
Stack temperature is a factor to be considered for every type of evaporators. We can call it wasted heat. To achieve efficient combustion,
you want to have the right volume of air to get a clean burn and a maximal CO2.
The same principals applies for all source of energy.
By adding primary air, you will increase the combustion rate. Therefore increasing the BTU's in the chamber and by that fact increasing the evaporation and the stack temperature.
On the Force 5, as you already noticed there is big difference in temperature between the combustion chamber and the stack. We make better use of the heat to produce evaporation.
Over induction of air in the chamber will increase the combustion of the wood
and stack temperature to out of control level. you will get out of the maximal efficiency curve. At this point ashes and glowing hot coals will fly out of the stack. witch may be a dangerous fire hazard.
You see no such thing on a Force 5.
About steam.
Steam evaporation is costly and risky.
You really want to know what you are doing when using any type of steam generators. In some region like Quebec, the operator requires to be licensed.
These equipments are subject to scheduled inspections.
Pressure will decrease the evaporation. If you want to evaporate more,it is normally done under vacuum. Like the dairy industry and other food operations. You can evaporate more at much lower temperature. But for maple syrup, it's unique flavor will be lost, and the cost of such equipment is up in the cloud.
I hope this information will be satisfactory to you.
Regards.
Steve O'Farrell
Lapierre equipment
Sorry Scott, but there is no gimmick.
I am sure in time you like others will be impressed.
The 2100 degrees temperature were achieved while we were running test last year. Don't forget the Force 5 has a throttle pedal.. The primary air circuit. Increasing the primary air input, increases the speed of combustion.
Then more BTU'S means higher temperature.
Speaking to Réjean after reading your post, he informed me that in NH. they were burning small logs of ash and pine. This dry and soft wood gets set ablase all at once. To prevent excessive smoking primary air must be reduced to minimum then producing less heat. Force 5 works best with one year old hard wood with a 20% dampness. Logs of 6 to 8 inches in diameter.
A 3X12 ft. evaporator at 200 gal./hr. possibly? But i am not sure you want to process high brix concentrate at that evaporation rate.This is the reason we developed this manageable combustion system beside hoping to reduce the maple syrup carbon trail.
Take care
Steve o'Farrell
Lapierre equipment
I change my mind.
Last edited by Mark; 12-12-2009 at 06:01 PM.
Cost to run the blowers
lets see: 15 amps x 230 volts = 3450 watts or 3.45 KW
around here a kilowatt costs about 6 cents per KW/Hours
That's about 21 cents an hour. Not a factor in the big picture, unless you're running of a genset in which case I'm guessing you need to multiply that by 4 or 5 times. Still a buck an hour is pretty cheap for that performance.
Brent- around here in NH we pay around $.18 per KW hour (thank you seabrook nuke plant) - so 3 times what your paying- but still your point is accurate on cost vs. performance.
Eric Johnson
Tucker Mountain Maple Co-op
1400 taps in 2013
2.5 x 8 CDL pellet arch and Smokey Lake pans
Lapierre 600 RO
Member of Andover/Salisbury Maplehaulics anonymous
www.tuckermtn.com
pALS
This is the data I have from the seminar
Boiled three hours and went through around 460 gallons of water using 2 foot wet pine and 2 foot 1 month ash and 2 foot 6 month maple. One thing the flow meter was not calibrated and being a insturment guy the flow readings mean nothing unless it has a calibration stamp and I should of left it off (But it did look cool). The cold float inlet is below the flue level so it is phyisical hard to tell how much sap is coming in to the float boxand flue pan unlike my old Algier and most evaporators where you can see the sap come in and drop into the box. Another thing to keep in mind the last hour of the semiair I had Rejean turn down the 1st and 2nd stage blowers so he could explain to the NHUSDA how the evaporator works this went thus slowing down the evap rate this was done when most guest where on site.
I'm very pleased with the evaporator and being able to add wood every 45 to 60 min like proven that day and longest we went that day was 1 hour and 15 min.
Can't wait for sap
Chris
The Maple Guys Lapierre New England
www.mapleguys.com
PO Box 628
327 Forest Road
Wilton NH 03086
1-888-MAPLEGY (627-5349)
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