whats the big deal with these check valves?

[dano2840]

i haven't really been in the loop over the summer but i keep hearing about these check valve spouts. i havent seen one and was wondering what the big fuss is all about. i know they stop sap from flowing back into the tree and u can get a 1/2 gal/tap but how? do you have to run vacuum to make them effective or can they be run on gravity? do they make it so vac leaks dont cause back flow? fill me in please

[Haynes Forest Products]

They are for vacuum. They have a small ball that gets sucked shut when the vacuum drops. From what I see in the video after the vacuum equalizes they will open and the sap will continue to flow out of the tree. I dont think that you will get complete seperation of the saps tree side and tube side after the pressure differantel equalizes. I think the only real benifit is when the vacuum stops they dont let the sap get sucked back into the tap hole under high vacuum causing the contaminated sap from the tubing into the tree. All the extra output is based on the tap hole staying cleaner and bacteria free over a longer period of time allowing for a longer season.

I would say that its impossible to keep the two saps from mixing slightly only because they dont have springs to help close the ball sooner and keep it closed. Im sure that was tried and the cost became to high in the manufacturing. Plus the cleaning aspect of the valve will be a issue. My prediction is that we will have a forum and alot of chatter on the best way to keep them clean and not become a sourse of the bacteria from year to year.

[vtmaplemaker]

OK Guys
I have a few questions also... These where developed by a DR at Proctor correct? Who paid for the development, and testing on these? I am sure it was done with Tax Money, Donations made by Sugarmakers assoc, ect. If this was the case, how and why does leader hold the patt # on these? If we have paid for the development and testing, shouldn't we be able to get them from whoever? Wouldn't it be more beneficial to us to have all the manufactorers producing them, and put a little competition in the pricing?

This seems like kind of a inside deal to me.. Now not only is leader reaping all the benefits from manufactoring these thing, but they are making it so you have to buy their stubbies too.. Why not make it a one piece throwaway that connects direct to the drop like lapierre has? (I guess because they can make more off us this way)

I guess I am just having a problem padding Leaders pocket (which god knows we have all done a whole bunch of allready) buying something that we all have money in the development and testing when in my oppinion we should have some competition....

[jason grossman]

if you all really want to get a half gallon ( i do now) or chase a gallon like i am i believe less in new fittings and more in thinnings and woodlot management!

[brookledge]

Another thing they will do is in the event that you have a frozen lateral or mainline and the sap has begun to flow in some spots they will keep the sap from going into tap holes that aren't flowing yet.
As with anything first one to production on a new idea gets to reap the benifits. I know what you mean about spending grant money etc. but lets just say nobody came up with the idea for years to come. I for one want to use them if it has been proven to increase yield more than the cost of the adapter.
Look at all the other items over the years that have been R&D over the years. When I started making syrup for instance there was no such thing as a RO I'm sure alot of grant money was spent on R&D for them. Another big item that gets alot of money spent on is the rest of the tubing and fittings.
When I started in the 70's the tubing sucked to todays standards, so I'm glad they are spending my money to improve my operation
Keith

[killingworthmaple]

I went to a seminar on the check valves at Bascoms this spring and the facts are very convincing and they more than pay for themselves with the extra sap that you get.

[KenWP]

I am sure that they will give some benifit even to gravity users. I think they would work for bukets also so that you have a closed hole. I am waiting to hear from users on here next year and it would be nice to hear about honest to goodness returns that are higher then normal.The average seems to be around 3 pounds a tap so a little better then that would pay for the extra expense. Then we can complain about more then one person bragging about his sugar bush.

[3rdgen.maple]

Call me stupid but Im still confused how one season is gonna tell if these things are sliced bread or not. There are way to many variables from season to season. If you go back through the years just on the trader alone you will get reports on what a great year we had and reports on what a bad year the next one was etc. Another thought I had was these things are gonna extend your season by a few weeks, somebody better let mother nature know that so the trees can hold out on budding so we can get premium sap out of them. If your holes are not producing and mother nature is cooperating why not just ream your holes. However I do understand the contamination aspect of them and I think this is what the selling point of these new taps should be focused on. I think I will stick with buckets till you guys give a report on them after a few seasons. This reminds me of the guys at the racetracks who gotta have the latest and greatest and get beat on the track by the guys with the 18 year old racecar who spends the time in the garage and not the money in there wallets. Im gonna get in trouble for this one aren't I?

[howden86]

If these checkvalves are to keep sap from reentering the tap hole when the vaccum is shut off why can't we just install one check valve on the main line by the vaccum pump or have a ball valve we can close.

Tom

[Haynes Forest Products]

The check valve needs to be as close to the area you want to protect and thats right next to the tap hole. I would like to know how much back flow they need to shut and seal. I think its a great concept I just dont know how well they stop all cross contamination.

I dont feel like im lining anyones pockes if I buy a product that I want and need and dont have the ability to make myself. I think whats great about any industry is that someone is always trying to get rich buy inventing the next "must have item" and its not always the big evil corporation that does it.