+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 21

Thread: Let's be realistic

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Lanark, ON
    Posts
    2,399

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimatetreehugger View Post
    I have sold sap since 2016 and I'm now exploring purchasing my own evaporator and everything that entails.

    So my question is this, on an 4x14 evaporator with hoods and no steam away, concentrateing to 18%, how much oil would I use per gallon of syrup/ per hour of boiling?

    I'm assuming an evaporation rate of 180 gallons of sap an hour producing approximately 40 gallons of syrup a hour. Is this realistic?

    Thanks for your help in advance.
    Not sure on oil consumption but we boil 200 GPH of 18 Brix concentrate on our 3.5x14 wood fired, making a drum per hour of finished syrup. The 4x14 is probably the right size if you're at 6000+ taps but is way too big at 3750. At 6000 taps you're looking at between a 2.5 hour boil (5000 gallons of sap) to a 5 hour boil (10,000 gallons) for a "normal" day, whatever that is!
    4,600 Taps on vacuum
    9,400 gallons storage
    3 tower CDL RO
    3.5'x14' Lapierre Force 5
    Twitter & Instagram: @ennismaple
    www.ennismaple.com

  2. #12
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimatetreehugger View Post
    Thank you guys, if I do get an evaporator I would add 3000 taps at my home woods. Because I'd have to put a pump station down in the woods to get the 3000 extra taps I feel like I am at the point where I need to decide if I go full scale with more taps and boil or stay the same size and continue selling sap. Both have benefits but I think I'd be better off boiling at a larger scale.

    I have an 1800 gph ro expandable.

    Brian, I'll stop by the next time I'm over that way.
    Not that you are asking for my 2 cents - so toss this out the window if you would like. If I were you I would take a step back for 10 minutes and just look at what you want to do in the long term. I get that selling sap on your side of the state isn't as profitable as the western side of Vermont (15% to 20% higher over here from the numbers I've been told). An expansion essentially doubling your operation plus boiling comes with a lot of cost. If it were me I would add the taps and keep selling sap until they pay for themselves (1 or 2 years). With an end goal around 6500 taps I would get a high brix RO and a 3x12 evap because of profit margins and time I would put more money in the woods and the RO than the evaporator. Don't ever be shy of touring sugarhouse to pick up on things you like and things you hate. If you dont mind me asking why do you have an RO if you are selling sap?

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    321

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ecp View Post
    Don't ever be shy of touring sugarhouse to pick up on things you like and things you hate. If you dont mind me asking why do you have an RO if you are selling sap?
    I have a weekend hobby of sugar house window peeping lol

    So, I got an ro for several reasons,

    Primary reason is that my buyer would get over run but there 21000 taps because they were under sized at the Ro and we would be in a constant stressful juggling match and on several occasions one of us would have sap on going on the ground. So after that experience I purchased an ro to i could recirculate until they were ready for me.
    Secondly my old 99 ram dump truck was falling apart making 84 trips a year carrying 8250 pounds over steep muddy roads. Plus my trips was cut to 25 trips with no concern over sap loss.
    The third was time. Two years ago I was blessed with my daughter and I really wanted to be able to spend time with her, especially dinner.

    The fourth was the value of sap is higher this way.
    Remember to keep on ticking while the sap is dripping.
    2016- 50 buckets. Made 4 gallons.
    2022- 3750 taps + Smartrek! Made 1300 gallons.
    2023- 3750 taps after removing a pump house and connected two woods. Made 800 gallons.
    2024- 3750 taps 1384 made.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Cabot Vermont
    Posts
    619

    Default

    Thats was what I thought. I have though about putting in ro at the pump shacks too. Now that I have the sap truck with the 3200 gallon tank life got alot easyer.










    i
    Blaisdell's Maple Farm
    started on a 2x2 pan in 2000 and now
    custom built oil fired 4x12 arch by me
    Thor pans Desinged by Thad Blaisdell
    4600 taps on a drop flue 8-4 split

  5. #15
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    199

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimatetreehugger View Post
    I have a weekend hobby of sugar house window peeping lol

    So, I got an ro for several reasons,

    Primary reason is that my buyer would get over run but there 21000 taps because they were under sized at the Ro and we would be in a constant stressful juggling match and on several occasions one of us would have sap on going on the ground. So after that experience I purchased an ro to i could recirculate until they were ready for me.
    Secondly my old 99 ram dump truck was falling apart making 84 trips a year carrying 8250 pounds over steep muddy roads. Plus my trips was cut to 25 trips with no concern over sap loss.
    The third was time. Two years ago I was blessed with my daughter and I really wanted to be able to spend time with her, especially dinner.

    The fourth was the value of sap is higher this way.
    First - Congrats on having a daughter. Kids are the only true joy left in this world today so take every second you can get with them.

    I totally understand your reasons for an RO and given the same scenario I probably would have done the same thing (maybe). Selling RO'd sap to me leaves to many areas for someone to get screwed. This is not a judgement just an observation, but I see in your signature line is says that off from 3750 taps you made 800 gallons (my guess is that you were the one getting screwed on the RO'd sap). If the 800 gallons is really a true number with no errors, I would recommend you put money and time in the woods not in the sugarhouse (evap, boiling, filtering, RO) because you are missing about half of your production already. To me there is no point in just adding taps when you can double your sap production at your current tap count. All you would be doing is adding tapping time when you could shift that additional time to checking for leaks. A note - if your current sap buying can't handle what they have I'd find a new one because there is no excuse for a buyer to have a seller spilling sap on the ground because of capacity. Again, this is just my 2 cents you can take it or leave it.

    P.S. I won't pick on you for driving a dodge. http://mapletrader.com/community/images/icons/icon6.png

  6. #16
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Cabot Vermont
    Posts
    619

    Default

    The problem is we are lucky to make a 1/3 of a gallon per tap in this area because this area is cold. I plan on a quart per tap and anything after that is a bonus. Some days the sap dont start to run until 2:00 pm and done at 4:00 pm. We get flash freezes that freezes everything up hard in an instant and breaks sensors, lines and valves that most sugar makers never get to see. Some times the mountain sides thaw out and fill all the liquid lines and vacuum lines at the top and the conductors never thaw out that day then hits 0 deg tha night night and that means the next 3 days fixing broken lines and what not. Oh the joy of living in the north.
    Blaisdell's Maple Farm
    started on a 2x2 pan in 2000 and now
    custom built oil fired 4x12 arch by me
    Thor pans Desinged by Thad Blaisdell
    4600 taps on a drop flue 8-4 split

  7. #17
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Cabot Vermont
    Posts
    619

    Default

    I usually send 2-3 sensors back to h2o to get fixed do to freezing. I have extras for that reason.
    Blaisdell's Maple Farm
    started on a 2x2 pan in 2000 and now
    custom built oil fired 4x12 arch by me
    Thor pans Desinged by Thad Blaisdell
    4600 taps on a drop flue 8-4 split

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    321

    Default

    I just updated my signature.
    Ecp, thank you, I love being a dad and she is amazing.

    I'm obsessive in my woods and pull 26.5 to 27 inches throughout which isnthe best you can do at my elevation. In 2023 my area had one of the worst seasons on record and i did much better that a lot of my neighbors.

    Brian, I fight constantly with my Smartrek system and HATE it! It's never connected on my phone making me call my wife when I want to know how I'm doing in the woods.

    Also, I'll have you know that my ramshackle underpowered rust flea ridden pos has never let me down despite being able to feel the cab bounce with every bump. It doesn't owe me a nickle. It's the only work truck that's not a Ford and I don't like walking enough to own a Gm product!
    Remember to keep on ticking while the sap is dripping.
    2016- 50 buckets. Made 4 gallons.
    2022- 3750 taps + Smartrek! Made 1300 gallons.
    2023- 3750 taps after removing a pump house and connected two woods. Made 800 gallons.
    2024- 3750 taps 1384 made.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Cabot Vermont
    Posts
    619

    Default

    I make that same call to my wife also. One woods that I have has no cell coverage at all since they changed to 4g only.
    Blaisdell's Maple Farm
    started on a 2x2 pan in 2000 and now
    custom built oil fired 4x12 arch by me
    Thor pans Desinged by Thad Blaisdell
    4600 taps on a drop flue 8-4 split

  10. #20
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    199

    Default

    I'll have to come clean now and say that I drive a GM product. That was a funny come back.

    It's good to hear about the H20 monitors as I looked at them before going to CDL (sounds like I made the correct decision).

    While I don't live in the kingdom I have a cold sugar place (generally when I pull spouts there is still snow on the ground at the top) and am empathic to cold climate sugar makers certainly more so than most. What I'll say is I hear you and I've said the same things in the past. Now that I have shifted my mentality, and I use the data from monitors (not only for leak checking but also for pipe pitch and sizing) along with research I have doubled production (no I don't make 7 lbs per tap i was at the same spot you are). Location, soil composition, weather, tree stress, tap hole location, vacuum level, product shrinkage factors, density, ect all make a difference when it comes to production numbers.

    I'm not crapping on anything or anyone here because every operation is different and that is part of what makes the ag industry great. Hell, I would probably still be sloshing around waist deep in snow all winter long if I was making 1 lbs per tap. I'm just saying when I changed my mentality from just blaming the weather to making decisions to improve things based on the data and research I had, I saw a difference. My decision for improvement is probably different than others and that it totally okay.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts