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Thread: New ARC taps vs CV taps

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Middletown Springs, VT
    Posts
    120

    Default New ARC taps vs CV taps

    Forgive me if this has already been discussed, and if so please point me to the post. THere are so many that it can be tough to find these discussions. I am wondering if Dr. Tim has shown a direct comparison of the new ARC vs CV spouts. We have solely used CV spouts since they came out. We believed in the research and have stuck with them. We have nothing to compare to. However, we are going to try 1/2 of our bushes with new ARC spouts. I have never completely understood why the CV spouts are still recommended even when vacuum is on 24 hours a day. The ARC spouts are 1/2 the cost. We have kept data for 10 years on the sap collection and when we have good vacuum, ~23-25 inches, with minimal leaks, we generally make .35 to .38 gallons of syrup per tap with the CV's. It will be interesting to see the difference with the ARC spouts. Can anyone tell me if there are any direct comparisons in research out there yet?? Thank you!
    www.MaharMaple.com
    Vortex 30x10 woodfired
    springtech 600
    3000+ taps
    vacuum/ gravity/ buckets

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    199

    Default

    While I am sure I will be corrected here is what I believe is the answer. There are other conversations, but I am having trouble locating them as well. The arc spout increases potential vacuum to the tap hole by reducing friction loss (I think all the research is using the arc tee and arc spout in conjunction so just using an arc spout will yield differently). If you get the arc spout with the barb option, the barbs allow for the spout to be closer to the outside of the tree which allows for more production because you not blocking off the most productive layer. If I remember correctly the barbs are better for early season production but as the season goes on they tappers off to being the same as a regular spout. I highly doubt you will ever see a combo barbed spout with a CV option because of the patents on each, and the relationship between the 2 manufacturing companies. Either way you cut it good sanitation practices are needed for high yields and there are several high yield producers out there that never use CV spouts.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Middletown Springs, VT
    Posts
    120

    Default

    Thank you, yes that is my understanding as well, but I am asking if there has been side by side comparison of output of the two spouts on high vac. In other words can I expect the same sap flow from the cheaper ARC compared to the more expensive CV. If so why would I spend the extra money. If I am going to get more sap per tap using CV, then they will still be worth the extra cost..... thanks
    www.MaharMaple.com
    Vortex 30x10 woodfired
    springtech 600
    3000+ taps
    vacuum/ gravity/ buckets

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Hartford, MI
    Posts
    192

    Default

    Nothing for comparison. But I take all my lines down every year and the ARC taps got hooked on anything that was close enough. Going back to the seasonal straight.
    5th generation
    2 1/2 Buckets
    815 gravity
    2 new flat pans. Back pan now has 16 V's
    Rebuilt the block arch 3x12
    Homemade pre-heater,steamhood
    MES Dolly RO

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Cabot Vermont
    Posts
    637

    Default

    https://middlevalleymaple.com/services/ I think this is interesting.
    Blaisdell's Maple Farm
    started on a 2x2 pan in 2000 with Gramps buckets
    custom built oil fired 4x12 arch by me
    Thor pans Desinged by Thad Blaisdell
    4500 taps on a drop flue 8-4 split

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    ns
    Posts
    103

    Default

    go to bascoms and do a search for mvmcspb . i got mine last year from them.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    West Falls, NY
    Posts
    269

    Default

    I had a nice phone conversation before last season (Nov/Dec ish) with the the representative at the company making the barbed arc spouts. It was explained to me that the CV spouts primary benefit is they can extend your season by keeping the tap holes bacteria free longer but don’t increase harvest on each day. The short barrel arc taps help you harvest more sap each run but do not extend your season. I tried the arc taps and had decent results but they do tend to pull off some bark when you remove them.
    If I go with the short barrel barbed arcs again this season, I am going to use the nylon ones as I did have some trouble with the polycarbonate ones cracking when installed (probably 5 in the 125 I used).
    Last edited by 82cabby; 11-03-2024 at 10:25 AM.
    Sugaring since 2000.
    2022 - 113 taps on tubing and gravity. Homemade wood fired evaporator and homemade RO.
    2023 - 120 taps on 5/16 and gravity added a float to the pan. built a new 5x400gpd RO. Still use the old one too!
    2024 - 125 taps still on 5/16 tubing and gravity, two home made ROs.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Berrien Center, MI
    Posts
    133

    Default

    82cabby, I'm curious if you have numbers on how much sap you were collecting with the short barreled barbed arc spouts. We're on buckets here so I was hoping someone in a similar situation had some data available.
    Daniel & Eleanor Bliese
    Heritage Woods, LLC
    SW Michigan

    Smoky Lake 2x4 raised flue on Corsair arch
    The RO Bucket 80gph Single Post
    100 taps on buckets

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    West Falls, NY
    Posts
    269

    Default

    We collected 1,725 gallons from 125 taps all on tubing from which we produced 25 gallons of syrup (our trees always run very low sugar %). That’s the second best yield we’ve had, but in all fairness the record yield year was a fluke and we made 40 gallons of syrup. 18-22 gallons of syrup is our norm.The weather wasn’t great and all the large producers around here complained that it was an off year so I felt lucky to have had a good season.

    Now take into consideration, we are really small time and one year isn’t much of a sample size so it’s hard to tell what is making a difference.
    Sugaring since 2000.
    2022 - 113 taps on tubing and gravity. Homemade wood fired evaporator and homemade RO.
    2023 - 120 taps on 5/16 and gravity added a float to the pan. built a new 5x400gpd RO. Still use the old one too!
    2024 - 125 taps still on 5/16 tubing and gravity, two home made ROs.

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