Shurflo lift questions

[DMF]

I did some scouting of a new property to tap. It has a lot of trees to tap however it's totally off grid; I definitely need a solar powered system.

One of the best areas for a mainline is textbook; it runs in a valley with steep slopes on either side for several lateral locations. The problem is the collection area. Where the run would end is about 20' lower in elevation than where I can access with my truck/pump. From the end of the run, it goes up 20' up over a 60' distance, then slopes back down towards the access road 10' in elevation for approximately 225'.

Can a shurflo pump up that high to get to my access point or would I have to put a tank low down at the bottom of the run and complicate the system by having another solar powered pump to lift the sap to my access point? I have a good area near the access point for my solar panels, down by the end of the run, not so much. I'd probably have to run around 200' of wire from a location where the panels would get good sun to the end of the run.

This will be my first mainline installation as well as my first solar/shurflo pump design (on my own property I run 3/16 lines into lunchbox releasers) so any help is greatly appreciated!

[maple flats]

I guess it would depend on the specific Shurflo pump, that would be too much for many shurflo pumps. You would need to read the specs, look at the head rating, that is how many feet the pump will push water up above the pump. You also need to consider line friction loss.
My gut instint says you would be better off with a small 2 cycle pump, or even a Honda WX10, and use either 1/2" line or better yet 3/4" for faster delivery.
You need to realize if you go the Shurflo route, just because the numbers say it will work, the speed of transfer will also need to be considered.
Don't just guess, study and understand the specifications (specs) on what the manufacturer says tests have shown, then realize the numbers are on a 100% fully charged battery or maybe even a 120 to 12V transformer.
In my past I pumped sap long distances, but the longest was a net downhill of 15', while pumping sap over 900' distance. It started as a 7' lift, then downhill 15' thus from the 7' height it was 22' downhill, in a 1.5" line. My other one was only a lift of 6 feet, then downhill for about 40 feet to the pump, then up maybe 6' into 2 IBC totes. Neither were like what you want to do. Maybe someone will chime in who has done it similar to what you need.
A thing to consider, if you decide to go Shurflo, what about a tank where you can get your truck to, a tank at the low area in the valley and a Shurflo pushing from the low tank up to the truck tank location, then the shurflo can push sap as it reaches the lower tank and when you get to the second tank, That way you won't need to watch the shurflo move the sap slowly. the sap is already in the close tank, ready to pump onto your truck or trailer tank.

[DMF]

A thing to consider, if you decide to go Shurflo, what about a tank where you can get your truck to, a tank at the low area in the valley and a Shurflo pushing from the low tank up to the truck tank location, then the shurflo can push sap as it reaches the lower tank and when you get to the second tank, That way you won't need to watch the shurflo move the sap slowly. the sap is already in the close tank, ready to pump onto your truck or trailer tank.

Hi Dave,
Yes. I think that would work, but it's what I am trying to avoid. I think maybe I didn't ask my question correctly or it's too dumb of a question to even be asking. I was wondering (hoping) that I could put the shurflo pump at the "easy access" tank and extend the mainline tubing past my lowest tree and up the hill to the "easy access" tank. Would the shurflo pull the sap via the vacuum uphill that much?

Also, I took my GPS there today and entered a waypoint at the bottom of the valley and another at the top of the rise I'd like to suck the sap up and according to the elevation readings it's only a 10 foot rise (though it seems more than that when I'm standing there)

[BAP]

How many taps do you estimate is there? If you can keep good tight lines and get your vacuum up to upper teens to low 20’s, sap will come up the line. Vacuum is vacuum, it doesn’t know the difference between what made it.

[SeanD]

That may be too much pushing uphill for the one Shurflo and you'll see the loss on the vacuum side. If I understand it right, you may need to have a dedicated pump to push the sap up over the hill to a tank you can pick up from. You could have a float switch so it turns on/off when there is sap in the lower tank. A second Shurflo could do that. It would be slow, but if it has all day to do it, the sap should be there when you come by to collect - and you are still working with 12v. How many taps are you putting in this spot?

[DMF]

How many taps do you estimate is there?

I haven't done a count in that area yet, but I know there is well over 100 to be tapped, likely close to 200. I walked the northwest line of the property and got 100 there but that will be on a different line and pump and has easy road access. The southeast end is where I'm struggling with this problem. How many taps can a Shurflo pump handle?

That may be too much pushing uphill for the one Shurflo and you'll see the loss on the vacuum side.

I think my original question wasn't clear enough. I really don't want to "push" the sap; I'm wondering if the pump can vacuum and "lift" the sap to my easy access site.

[maple flats]

If over 100, or maybe even close to two hundred, I think you are asking too much from a Shurflo, especially for it to pull the sap, one of the larger Shurflo pumps however should be able to push the sap up.
You have lots of thim, try to find an old dairy pump and put it on a gas engine. Then you can pull it up using vacuum, in about 10' lifts, or just use a small gas powered pump to push it up from the low tank. Get a pump with enough "head", that's the feet in elevation the pump is rated to push water above the pump. That will work fine and if you use the right size piping to move the sap you will move it easily. Don't undersize the pipe diameter or it may not work to your satisfaction.
Just as a comparison, years ago I had to pump water up about 12 feet in elevation over a distance of 1500'. I first hooked up a 3hp gas powered pump (specs unknown) and used the piping I had. It started with 2" hose for 40', then connected to 1.5" pipe for about 740' then it split into 3 1" pipes the rest of the way. I got about 8-9 gpm out the upper end at my irrigation pond. I did that for one season. Then before the next season, I got 1500' of 2" pipe and hooked it to the same 3hp pump. With that I got over 35 gph from that same pump. It's all about line friction. Also, on the first season with the mish mosh of pipes getting the 1500' done a tank of gas (about 1.5 qts of gas) it ran just over 45 minutes before the gas was gone, after the change I got a little over 75 minutes on the same tank full of gas. I was doing it to get water to 4.5 acres of blueberries during a severe drought, mush worse than I'd ever seen before. Pipe diameter made a huge improvement, 2" vs. 2" to 1.5" to 3@ 1", but that was what I had onhand.

[DMF]

Hi Dave, I thought about a gas-powered dairy pump but it just seems so costly to run everyday.

[DrTimPerkins]

Sounds like the elusive search for a solution that works well, doesn't break the bank, and is efficient. I'm sure you know this, but I think the old saying goes something like:

Cheap, good, or fast -- pick one, sacrifice the other two.

If you're lucky, sometime you may get 1 1/2 of those goals at the same time. If you're extra lucky, maybe 2.

As Dave suggests, explore carefully your possible solutions and costs, then calculate the payback time for each given your anticipated production increase (most people overestimate -- subtract at least 10% of that to be conservative).

[maple flats]

You won't likely need to run a gas pump all of the time, based on what you described the terrain like. You said it's a valley , steep sides with a valley in the bottom. Use 3/16 tubing, with 5/16 drops and taps. That way, as the trees freeze they are much less likely able to pull sap back into the taphole, a big contributor to eacly taphole dry up. The 3/26 will get you gravity vaccum, have it empty into a tank at the bottom. Then have a gas pump to push the sap up to where you can get your truck to with a tank. Keep in mind that you will need to drive thru snow most seasons, or plow the roadway. Then only run the gas powered pump to push the sap up to either another tank, and then into the truck tank, of all in one step into the truck tank. Then shut the pump off until you get another load.
Doing it this way, you get vacuum compliments of never failing gravity and only use gas to move already collected sap to the truck. That way a gallon of gas will go a long way.
Just realize that 3/16 requires much more attention than 5/16 laterals, but on the plus side it gives you free vacuum. On the must do side, you need to clean the tubing after the season and before the next season again, and you need to change the Tees where each drop joins the lateral every year. If that fails you will get a very large % of the tees that plug with little debris and block all sap flow. On the plus side you can connect 25-30 taps on a single lateral on 3/16 tubing, on 5/16 you should keep the taps at 5 per lateral and never more than 10. Just those numbers mean that you save a load of cash on saddles using 3/16.
Yes, those numbers look wrong, but they are correct, you can have far more taps on a 3/16 lateral as long as you have a good drop in elevation.
Another thing to watch, when you tap, I highly suggest you tap when the sap is flowing, not way ahead. My reasoning is because when the sap is flowing, it helps flush out drill shavings that would tend to plug the tees. An alternative I've used most seasons, is I always carry several spare tees as I walk my lines, anyone that is plugged, I cut the old one out and replace it, right then. I had about 200 taps on 3/16 laterals and I might have needed 25 replacements thru a season, if I tapped and let the flow flush out drill shavings, If I failed that part I might of had to replace half or more.
You worry about the cost of operation, I ask you, what is a gallon of sap worth to you? To me it's worth about $.45-.55 each, don't cut off your nose to spite your face (old saying, still true today.
The whole point is to collect as much sap as possible while investing the least, that applies to material costs as well a labor, both are costs to be figured into the whole process of making maple syrup or for that matter anything you do in any arena.
Design a system that will work well, and only cut corners when it will make things work better or save you time. For most maple producers in season time is a precious!