CDL 600 RO question

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

Can it sit for more than a few days without a soap wash?

[ecp]

Can it sit for more than a few days without a soap wash?

Yes, because the "quick rinse" pushes all the sugar out of the membrane. All that will be sitting in the machine in permeate which will be fine. Most guys around me are letting permeate sit in the machine all year. I don't know much about recirculating but if i was to do it i would recirculate into the same tank until the tank got to x% sugar then send it to the head tank. I'm sure like anything once you get in a rhythm it will be easy.

[ecp]

I run a 600 ro for 3 years on 4000 taps so you should be fine. that machine can handle some sap. I didn't get much sleep back then.

I would guess you wouldn't be getting much sleep on those numbers. I too was guilty of an undersized RO for about 5 years (well longer than that but when we were only looking for 8% back in the day it kept up).

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

Cool, thanks guys. I'm going to size tanks and everything for the 600 and make a decision when the time comes. Who knows, maybe 8% is all I will want to run in the 2x6 but recirculating would help get more permeate. I'd rather not add another tank so would try just using the same one. And yes- it will be fine once I get a rhythm, just want to set everything up right the first time. We will be putting high vac on our 230 tap line for next season which is now gravity so that will tell me how much sap we will really be dealing with. Going to buy a small hobby RO on a dolly to get thru the next 2 seasons until the new shack is complete.

[Brian]

Thats right, 8% was great, then more was better. and that was what I was doing. yes you can let it sit after a good rinsefor a day or two.

[SeanD]

I agree with ECP. Double pass it to get above 8%. It's what I do. My method is the conc. stays at 2gpm, pressure at 350psi, and the perm flow is what it is...generally 5.5-6.5 depending on sap temp. On the second pass, same settings, but the perm flow is 2-3gpm.

Use a 500 gal tank for a concentrate tank and the 1200 gal tank for perm.

Like others said, 600 gal of perm. is the minimum recommended if doing a soap wash. I do a soap wash every time, just so I don't have to worry about it if I get a big run. Also, I think if double passing, you're getting more buildup, so it's good practice.

Excellent questions Maine...syrup. Very helpful for expansion planning/dreaming - and great answers provided.

Amber Gold, thanks for sharing those rates. Based on those numbers, you are removing about 75% in the first pass then 50% in the second pass? Do I have that right? I'm trying to plan how far/big I can go if I upgrade my 250 RO to a 600, but stay with a 2x6 on the boiling side.

[Amber Gold]

Yes, that is about correct. However, with this season's amazingly low raw sap SSC, I had to recirculate the concentrate to get the sugar content up to ~15% before I started boiling it. When you're starting at 1%, you can't get to 8% on the first pass.

[SeanD]

Thanks. That's a big help. Generally, I target volumes and rates when boil to see how long I'll be at it that night. The percent is just a bonus, except for this year where all bets were off. I told myself to stop checking the raw sap sugar content for the rest of the season, but it was like a car wreck. I couldn't help but look. Historic lows. It can only get better next year.

I'm looking at your tap counts in your signature. When did you make the jump to the 600 RO and the 2.5'x8'? I'm guessing 2012 or 2013.

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

Funny this thread just popped back up. I found myself a CDL Turbo 250 RO that I picked up in NY this past weekend. The machine is the 600 cabinet with the 3 HP turbo and a 1 HP feed pump, 2012 model. It has 2- 4" towers with 1/3HP recirc motors. Didn't even realize CDL made these for a period of time. I spoke with CDL about it and they confirmed they did in fact make 4" towers around 10 years ago for a period of time. Recirc motor parts would be my only concern but they still have them and can get parts or new motors from Grainger. So, I'm pretty excited to have the machine. Turbo power, high PSI, won't have to worry about permeate for cleaning and I can stay with CDL for the local parts support. I was very close to getting a Lapierre Turbo 250.
We have the tanks already which are sized for a 600 and are doing the slab for the new shack this summer. Now if I decide I want to upgrade to a 8" post, I can have the wiring changed and run 1 post with this machine. Might be more like a 500 then 600 but no issue running 1-8" post which is all we will ever need. Planning to send the machine to CDL for a full service before we use it, maybe I will have them add the 8" post wiring then so it's there if I want it down the road.
So now I have the 600 for sale.

[SeanD]

Congrats on the new purchase. It's nice to have the flexibility you were looking for. I don't sweat the early season small runs as much because it's typically still really cold and the sap will keep as more comes in the next day. It's the end-of-the-season runs that are tough for me. The sap won't keep and the permeate is dwindling. You should be good.

Are the Turbos units set up with larger pumps designed for a 8" membrane pushing through two 4" membranes at a higher pressure? I hadn't heard of those. Aside from changing your math on the permeate, what are the rates like on a Turbo 250?

I was talking to Ray Gingerich at Deer Run recently and he makes a 500 GPH with a single 8" membrane for a VERY reasonable price. It will take 2% to 8%. Each unit is built to order, but he works quickly. If I'm able to make a big jump in tap count, that would be a unit I would consider. He doesn't advertise, so I thought I'd put that out there.