+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12

Thread: Sap Transfer Pumps -- Let's Get Specific

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Essex Junction, VT
    Posts
    93

    Default Sap Transfer Pumps -- Let's Get Specific

    In Swingpure's ongoing 2023 thread, the subject of sap transfer pumps came up and was quite controversial.
    Statements have included that pumps that are "officially" food grade are hard to find, and that food grade pumps are easy to find. Some say it is fine to use pumps that are not officially "food grade" and some say that is unethical or dangerous practice.
    I am wondering if we can get specific on this in one thread.

    What do you use to pump sap, and can you provide a link to it on a vendor website or a vendor part number, specifically how you use it, and include what evidence you have that it is safe to use for a food product? What pumps have you heard of being used that you think shouldn't be, and why? I'm thinking of pretty much any pump you might be using in your sugaring operation except the vacuum pump for your tubing system which I'd consider another topic.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Center, Underhill Ctr, VT
    Posts
    6,138

    Default

    Regulations and recommendations vary somewhat, but tend to say things like:

    "food-grade",
    "water potable", or
    "suitable for the intended use"
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Hudson NH
    Posts
    110

    Default

    I love this topic and am just getting around to chiming in. Every year I make a list toward the end of the season on ways to improve i.e. increase efficiency. This past year my bottle neck is the sap transfer pump from my holding tank to my truck tank. I bought an USA adventure pump last year. Nice little unit all food grade says so on the pump/packaging believe the wording is for potable water. It is basically a sureflow pump in a case. Pump was not cheap id say 500 or so. As much as it beats lugging 5 gallon pails I am not sure it is much faster. I think it is rated for 5 gallons a minute. So thinking ahead I said ok pump is limiting factor I am going to upgrade. Well finding a bigger pump that says potable water or food grade is next to impossible. The honda or generac water pumps that most guys are using do not specifically say potable water although if you ask them on the website they say it is ok to use for this but not sure if I should go that route or can believe them. I could get a small honda pump for 400 that would triple my output. So I poked around Bascoms website and they sell a sap pump that looks to be a Chinese knock off in the 400 dollar range and I would be surprised if it says food grade or potable water, but they should know right and they sell it as a sap pump. I was also up in the NEK last weekend and pick and shovel has sap pumps for sale in same range with no markings that say food grade etc. So what are we to do, I want to do everything by the books however the suppliers don't seem to be too concerned so should we be? I can tell you when I was growing up it was a trash pump in the tank through non-food grade hose etc. but I want to be better. There are food grade pumps for the beer guys in the 1500 dollar range seems like over kill all stainless. The lack of responses to this thread seems to tell me that there may not be a good answer. I wanted to at least let you know that the USA Adventure pump might be a good option. I ran it off a deep cell battery and it will also run off a cigarette lighter. It is food grade and did ok for me if you have the time. Its my personal bottle neck but I am trying to work a full time job and process sap on the same day it runs so time is my enemy.

    19x48 mini pro oil fired, Nano R/O, CDL Vacuum Press,Mountain Maple Vacuum setup
    6x12 sugar house off back of shed
    2019- 50 taps all buckets- 6 Gallons syrup made
    2020 -50 taps, more Sugar Maples, with some Reds- 6 gallons made
    2021- 46 taps- 26 on 3/16 tubing, 19 buckets - All Sugar Maples this year - 12.2 Gallons made
    2022- 83 taps - all 3/16 tubing, 48 on vacuum -All Sugars - 21 Gallons made
    "The days are long, but the years are short"

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Lake County Ohio
    Posts
    1,444

    Default

    I had a Honda 1" pump that I used for 3 years to pump from a collection tank up to the sugar house.

    Even though I used it only for Maple, it did bother me that the aluminum impeller got pretty nasty looking each year (pitted and oxidized) when I'd break it down to clean.
    After looking for an affordable pump labeled/rated for potable water and not being successful, I finally decided that I was done with pumps and it was time for vacuum.
    I think that many operations - large and small - have evolved the same way, eliminating the need for a transfer pump.
    End result being that an affordable high-volume pump for potable water, does not present a big market.
    Potable Water Pumps are out there and used in lots of applications, problem is they're not cheap and vacuum begins to look better every day.
    If there's any way you can "coax" your sap up to the sugar house with 3/16" and a Sure-Flo" pump, you may be further ahead.
    If you're collecting road side or off property, your choices are pretty limited - go Honda or equiv or spend big bucks for a rated pump.
    This is not a hit at anyone using non-rated pumps, rather an attempt to explain why I think rated pumps are so hard to come by in a price range that makes sense to a smaller producer.
    John Allin

    14x18 Hemlock Timber Frame Sugar House 2009
    Leader 2x6 w/Patriot Raised Flue Pan 2009
    Leader Steam Hood 2014 - Clear Filter Press 2015
    Leader Revolution Pan and SS Pre-Heater 2016
    CDL Hobby RO & Air Tech L25 Hi Vac Pump 2019
    06' Gator HPX to collect wood & sap
    14' Ski-Doo Tundra for winter work in the woods
    Great Family 3 grown kids+spouses and 7 grand kids who like the woods
    7th Gen Born in Canada - Raised in Chardon Ohio - Maple Capital of the World..<grin>.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Wardensville, Wv
    Posts
    221

    Default

    Any pump that is "certified" for domestic water supply should be fine, the problem is that once you add a maple sticker on it the price rockets, i guess that's an assurance tax. Aluminum sap buckets are still common, so i wouldn't be afraid of leaching, however maybe pitting from cavitation releasing larger particles of aluminum, i don't know if the conditions inside the operating pump would be right for cavitation. The duration of time sap is in contact with any equipment can raise questions, i'd say the least amount of worry would come from something like a water pump where the sap is in contact less than a second. That being said a nasty old pump leaking oil or grease into the pump housing is a no no, lol. keep everything clean and as bacteria free as possible between uses. Just my thoughts
    2023 - Add more taps on vacuum, build new sugar house
    2022 - 52 Gallons - DIY RO, 50% less fuel, no late nights in the shack!
    2021 - 48 Gallons - new pans, new arch, lots of new taps and tubing
    2020 - 32 Gallons
    2019 - 27 Gallons

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Location
    Parry Sound Area, Ontario
    Posts
    901

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by darkmachine View Post
    The duration of time sap is in contact with any equipment can raise questions, i'd say the least amount of worry would come from something like a water pump where the sap is in contact less than a second. That being said a nasty old pump leaking oil or grease into the pump housing is a no no, lol. keep everything clean and as bacteria free as possible between uses. Just my thoughts
    On the plastic bilge pump I will be using, as a transfer pump, from my 35 gallon narrow necked food grade tank into other food grade tanks, theoretically 9.8 ounces of sap will pass through the pump every second, making sap to plastic contact very minimal. 1100 gph/8.34 gpm

    At the end of each day I will flush the pump out with fresh water or permeate.
    2022 - 5 pan block arch - 109 taps, 73 on 3/16 lines, 36 on drops into 5 gallon pails.
    930 gallons boiled, 109 L (28.8 gals) of delicious syrup made.
    DYI RO and DYI Vacuum Filter
    Planned 176 taps, 169 on lines and 7 on drops to pails, for 2023 with a 2x4 divided pan and base stack, 8” pipe, on a block arch.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Thetford, VT
    Posts
    425

    Default

    We use two Honda high pressure pumps to move sap from two collection points in the woods. We use a Wayne cast iron type if we need to move sap or near syrup around the sugar house. The pumps are cleaned well at the end of the season. The Wayne is flushed several times with hot water at the start, during, and end of the season. When the Wayne goes we'll buy a clearly marked pump suitable for potable water.

    It would be nice to find a 2" high pressure (like the Honda) which is marked potable. I am sure there will be a good cost to go with it.

    Mike
    Tapping since 1985 (four generations back to early to mid 1900s). 200-250 taps on buckets and then tubing in the mid 90s. 2013- 275 taps w/sap puller 25 gal. 2014-295 taps w/sap puller 55 ga. (re-tapped to vacuum theory) 2015-330 taps full vac. 65 gal, 2016-400 taps 105 gal, 2017-400 taps 95 gal. 2018-additional 800' mainline and maybe 400 new taps for a total near 800 taps. 2x6 Leader WSE (last year on it) supported by a 250 gph RO.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Location
    Parry Sound Area, Ontario
    Posts
    901

    Default

    This might be an opportunity to identify and perhaps list by price and gph, higher volume water pumps, that are food grade or for potable water. I just did another search and I came up empty.

    I think most people would prefer using a food grade/water potable transfer pump if they could find one, and for the back yarder, who is not regulated, a pump that is also affordable.

    If you are using such a pump please post it.

    Dr Perkins what do you use at your facility?
    2022 - 5 pan block arch - 109 taps, 73 on 3/16 lines, 36 on drops into 5 gallon pails.
    930 gallons boiled, 109 L (28.8 gals) of delicious syrup made.
    DYI RO and DYI Vacuum Filter
    Planned 176 taps, 169 on lines and 7 on drops to pails, for 2023 with a 2x4 divided pan and base stack, 8” pipe, on a block arch.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Williston, VT
    Posts
    523

    Default

    This is a great question since I think that many producers use a little 2"Honda transfer pump, even certified organic producers. I think it technically doesn't meet the organic rules and the fraction of a second contact time isn't an excusable exception.. we need to realize that whatever contaments you pick up in the pump will concentrate by 40 to 50 times by the time it becomes syrup.

    My sap collection uses an electric releaser (with a potable water well pump) that discharges directly into my raw sap tank at the sugar house. The sap then flows by gravity to the RO. Another part of my woods uses a CDL sap lifter that pushes the sap up to my electric releaser (through the vacuum side) by two little seaflow in-line dc electric pumps which are rated for potable water. They have a 280 gal per hour capacity and cost only about $40 each. However, they aren't a real good option for bulk transfer since they're not duty cycle rated.

    Ken
    Ken & Sherry
    Williston, VT
    16x34 Sugarhouse
    1,500 taps on high vacuum, Electric Releaser & CDL Sap Lifter
    Wood-Fired Leader 30"x10' Vortex Arch & Max Raised Flue with Rev Syrup Pan & CDL1200 RO
    https://www.facebook.com/pumpkinhillmaple/

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    East Concord NY
    Posts
    103

    Default

    NSF Cert for water seems to be the standard for maple/brewing industry. Two pumps i use and like in addition to goulds deep well submersibles in the in releaser.

    More Beer.com PMP100
    This a great deal but had been in and out of stock all year.
    .8 HP ss Jet pump with a SS motor. Is is made by EBARA a spanish pump company in the EU, not china. 13 GPM@ no lift, Max lift of 70' It is a customized Ebara JEU series pump. I am lifting sap 20' of elevation, 50' of 1" pipe to my evaporator feed tank and getting ~12 GPM. This pump has been in and out of stock all year. $400

    https://www.morebeer.com/products/pu...ainless-1.html

    For bigger Capacity.
    Gould LB1012 20GPM 1HP SS Jet pump (Also NSF) I prefer the LB1012TE as it has a TEFC motor. either for $671. This is the pump that H2O uses as the feed pump on their 600 GPH Ro's. It's a Great deal.

    https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-450...ph-20-gpm.aspx

    They have the 1/2 HP version as well for $ 612 https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-546...ph-20-gpm.aspx
    Last edited by Spanielslovesappin; 12-07-2022 at 06:49 AM.
    At least 5th Gen Sugarmaker
    30"x10'6" Vortex with Steamaway
    750ish on vac with Atlas DSV065 Claw,
    ? buckets per how dumb i am feeling.
    no RO, just a big Timberwolf splitter.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts