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Thread: Sugarbush Management and Red Maples

  1. #1
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    Feb 2022
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    Essex Junction, VT
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    Default Sugarbush Management and Red Maples

    I watched with much interest the playlist of videos Tim Perkins linked in his post from the other day "Sugarbush Management Videos Available" in the Proctor forum. Learned a lot.

    It brought me to a question. What if your sugarbush is partly, mostly, or entirely red maple? Do you manage it in the ways these videos suggest, inserting "red maple" wherever it says "sugar maple"? Or do you, over time, attempt to convert the sugarbush in the direction of sugar maple?

    Andy

  2. #2
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    Jul 2012
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    Lawrence County Ohio
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    I tap about 600 sugars, 50 reds and 150 silvers. Sap gets mixed in and all boiled the same. Throughout the season, the sap % is all about the same. My reds & sugars are in the hillside competing with other hardwoods, my silvers are on the creek bank and have huge canopies. Sugars and reds are on steep hillsides, 3/16 gravity, they average 1.5 gpt/day, silvers are level, on 3/16 pulled by shurflos, average 2 gpt/day.
    '12 15 jugs - Steam pans
    '17 125 3/16 - 18" x 72" drop flue on homemade arch
    '18 240 3/16 - Deer Run 125
    '19 450 3/16 - Converted RO to electric/added a membrane
    '20 600 3/16 - Maple Pro 2x6 Raised Flue, added AOF/AUF
    '21 570 3/16 - Built steam hood, Smoky Lake filter press
    '22 800 3/16 - Upgraded RO to 4 4x40
    '23 500 3/16 - Re-plumbed RO, new "Guzzler"
    '24 500 3/16 - Steam Away, DIY 8x40 RO

  3. #3
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    So as you manage regeneration, do you basically embrace that one area is silver, and regenerate it as such, and another is red, and regenerate that as red? (Sorry I probably didn't make it clear that I was essentially asking a regeneration question and maybe releasing, etc)

  4. #4
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    ns
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    Default Red Maple Info

    Most of my trees are red maple and I recently picked up a copy of CDLs magazine called "CDL's Way" Summer Edition 2022 at my local dealer. In it is an article by Abby van den Berg called "Total Yields from Red Maples" where she compares reds with sugar maple. Our Dr. Tim is listed as a collaborator.
    Also, Vermont Proctor Research has an hour-long presentation given at the NY Winter Classic Conference last Jan. It's titled "Total Syrup Yields from Red Maples." Very interesting presentation
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncnl...bk9c86w-H_5IBv

  5. #5
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    Feb 2011
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    Eagle lake Maine
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    My main bush has around 3400 trees that are about 50/50 sugars and reds. The other bush of 1000 trees is probably 90% sugar maples. Late in the season last year I tested the sap from each bush and surprisingly, the main bush had higher sugar content by .2% The 1000 tap bush does out produce the main bush, but mostly because the average tree size is larger.

  6. #6
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    Eagle Lake Sugar, that is cool. I hear that a lot, about sugar content. Certain trees are supposed to be sweeter than others, but may not be. The producers manual does mention that... at least measure sugar content before discounting a tree's potential. So, I'll bet as you manage regeneration, you're not actively trying to force things in the direction of sugar maple versus red, and probably not vice versa.

    Not lost on me is that there might be a locational reason such as soil, sun, moisture, and more that one species has become established in a certain spot, and it may pay not to fight that.

  7. #7
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    Jun 2011
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    South Colton, NY
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    I manage for healthy well spaced trees and if "all things being equal" I'll cut a red and leave a sugar but if all things aren't equal the better tree stays.
    3,100 taps
    60 cfm flood
    HC2
    5 by 14 oil

    Brian

  8. #8
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    Jul 2012
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    Lawrence County Ohio
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy VT View Post
    So as you manage regeneration, do you basically embrace that one area is silver, and regenerate it as such, and another is red, and regenerate that as red? (Sorry I probably didn't make it clear that I was essentially asking a regeneration question and maybe releasing, etc)
    Oh yeah I got ya, I'm just gettin started. last two years, ice storms have thinned for me.
    '12 15 jugs - Steam pans
    '17 125 3/16 - 18" x 72" drop flue on homemade arch
    '18 240 3/16 - Deer Run 125
    '19 450 3/16 - Converted RO to electric/added a membrane
    '20 600 3/16 - Maple Pro 2x6 Raised Flue, added AOF/AUF
    '21 570 3/16 - Built steam hood, Smoky Lake filter press
    '22 800 3/16 - Upgraded RO to 4 4x40
    '23 500 3/16 - Re-plumbed RO, new "Guzzler"
    '24 500 3/16 - Steam Away, DIY 8x40 RO

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Center, Underhill Ctr, VT
    Posts
    6,390

    Default

    The response from the producers of those videos (Dr. Tony D'Amato, UVM Forestry and Mark Isselhardt, UVM Extension Maple) is:

    If a site is tending more towards red maple, it is probably not a site that would support sugar maple dominance without a lot of effort. My inclination would be to manage for red maple, if the goal was perpetuating species that could be used for sugaring.

    and...

    Since red maple is a different species with a different mix of site on which it competes well the producer should work with what’s thriving now and not try to make significant shifts in the species composition. You can share the very real benefit of red maple being unattractive to forest tent caterpillar and this nice article Abby did recently: https://blog.uvm.edu/farmvia/files/2...production.pdf
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  10. #10
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    Feb 2022
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    Essex Junction, VT
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    Default

    Thanks for the replies everyone! Neat discussion.
    I haven't read Dr Abby's article yet but I have finally started reading the new producers manual.
    When I got the red maple section in the maple resource chapter it had some other nice things to say about red maple, such as that red maple mixed with sugar maple counts toward forest diversity.
    Now if only my sugarbush was more than a quarter-acre
    But hey, its still a sugarbush!
    Currently it contains one thriving 27" diameter sugar maple and 4 accidental Norways coming of age that are not big enough to tap yet. No room to plant anything else, but thinking 40 years ahead...

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