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Thread: Why some trees produce more sap than others

  1. #1
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    Default Why some trees produce more sap than others

    I don't know if this is the right place to post this but I do question why some trees produce more than others. I have some small red maple trees that put out more sap then the bigger trees. They get the same light amount, no other trees to shade them. Any good threads on this subject? Could not find it in the search engine.
    Last edited by mass maple; 03-05-2022 at 05:33 PM. Reason: added email respomcw

  2. #2
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    The same reason some people are tall and some are short - genetics.
    First introduced to making maple syrup in 1969
    Making syrup every year since 1979
    3 x 10 oil fired
    Revolution syrup and max flue pan
    Almost 1300 taps total with 900 on high vacuum
    Bought first Marcland drawoff in 1997, still going strong.

  3. #3
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    Besides genetics, I would imagine many other factors come into play....tree age, local soil conditions, soil pH, soil moisture, soil structure, root structure, etc.
    16x24 Timber Frame Sugar House
    Mason 2x4 Evaporator
    90 trees on buckets

  4. #4
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    This is a great topic.

    I have been tapping over the past 10 years in three different states and this is my 4th year in MN. I have a urban super bush. I have to go around in my suburban neighborhood and ask people to tap their trees so I am hyper aware of the factors that cause trees to produce more sap then others. What I can’t figure out is why some trees produce almost nothing?

    My best producing group of trees are all on the same street. They all lie next to a drainage area that catches runoff water. Most of the year it’s just grass right now it’s a creek.

    My single best tree is on the top of a hill in the front yard a guys house who doesn’t water his lawn and the ground is dry even during the thaw.

    More later.
    Suburban Sugar bush.
    2019 2.25 Gallons of Syrup on 6 Taps
    2020 12.5 Gallons of Syrup on 37 trees and 54 Taps
    2021 25 Gallons on 70+ Trees and 100+ taps.
    2022 42 Gallons on 60 Select tress with 120+ taps
    2023 26ish gallons on 75.

    2024 Bought property and have my own trees.
    Red, some Sugar
    Smoky Lake Dauntless with Blower and Divided Pan.
    I will be experimenting with cold shock gravity filtering.

  5. #5
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    Mar 2012
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    North Grenville
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    Greenfin if any trees have burls on them, they would definitely absorb any sap. I tried tapping two massive reds that I have, but they were full of burls. I got very little sap from them and soon pulled the spiles. Drainage, direction of wind, temperature, soil conditions, age, size and so forth are all factors. But yeah if there any burls, that's a huge possible factor for relatively poor output. Also, if you've tapped those trees before, take note how the holes have healed up. I have a tree that heals up incredibly quickly, and others where the holes take a worryingly long time to close up. Hope this helps!
    Been tapping since 2008.
    2018 - 17 taps/7 trees...819l sap, approx 28l syrup
    2019 - 18 taps/8 trees...585l sap, 28l syrup...21:1 ratio
    2020 - 18 taps/8 trees...890.04l sap...gave away about 170l, 30l snafu'd....23l total for me from approx 690l
    2021 - 18 taps/8 trees...395l sap, 12 l syrup
    2022 - 18 taps/8 trees....7 sugars 1 red due to #2 having surgery so had the season off....582l sap, 18.5l syrup
    2023 - 18 taps/8 trees...all sugars again. 807l sap, so far approx 14l syrup

  6. #6
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    Oneida NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenfin View Post
    This is a great topic.

    I have been tapping over the past 10 years in three different states and this is my 4th year in MN. I have a urban super bush. I have to go around in my suburban neighborhood and ask people to tap their trees so I am hyper aware of the factors that cause trees to produce more sap then others. What I can’t figure out is why some trees produce almost nothing?

    My best producing group of trees are all on the same street. They all lie next to a drainage area that catches runoff water. Most of the year it’s just grass right now it’s a creek.

    My single best tree is on the top of a hill in the front yard a guys house who doesn’t water his lawn and the ground is dry even during the thaw.

    More later.
    Several years ago, when I was on buckets I had one very large sugar maple on a knoll that was about 4' vin diameter. Being fairly new to maple I put 3 buckets on it, each about 1/3 of the way around the tree. I had a northerly facing tree that filled the bucket and over flowed almost every day, all I had to test at the time was a short hydrometer, that only gave the results in 1/4 of a point. That bucket yielded 2.5-3.25% on many days while the other 2 buckets rarely yielded 1/3 to 1/2 bucket and about 2% sugar. The tree looked well balanced, no major limbs missing, and no sign of damage that I could see. As I pulled the buckets each year I did it after the leaves were about half size, and the leaves looked the same over the entire tree. I never did figure it out. Since I was gaining more and more taps, I gave up that lease because it only had 28 taps and I was then doing leases with 100 and 700 taps, besides that lease was about 4 miles out of the way from my other leases.
    Dave Klish, I recently ordered a 2x6 wood fired evaporator from A&A Sheet Metal which I will be converting to oil fired
    Now have solar, 2x6 finish pan, 5 bank 7x7 filter press, large water jacketed bottler, and tankless water heater.
    Recently bought another Gingerich RO, this one was a 125, but a second membrane was added thus is a 250, like I had.
    After running a 2x3, a 2x6, 3x8 tapping from 79 taps up to 1320 all woodfired, now I'm going to a 2x6 oil fired and a 200-425 taps.

  7. #7
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    Mar 2011
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    Louisville, Kentucky
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    Quote Originally Posted by mass maple View Post
    I don't know if this is the right place to post this but I do question why some trees produce more than others. I have some small red maple trees that put out more sap then the bigger trees. They get the same light amount, no other trees to shade them. Any good threads on this subject? Could not find it in the search engine.
    So many reasons. There are seasonal differences of course, although trees that run good one year tend to run better in other years too in my experience. Otherwise, soil, canopy, summer growing season conditions ( rain, sun, heat you name it).
    Dave Barker
    2014 30 taps, steam tray pans
    2015 ~100 taps, in conjunction with University of Louisville
    2x5 Smoky Lake hybrid pan
    2022 150 taps

  8. #8
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    May 2010
    Location
    Savoy, MA
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    Tree health of course can also play a role. Individual trees may have experience some kind of a mildew, blight, tar spot or any number of other diseases that could have stressed a tree. I suppose an insect infestation would do the same.

    The question is like asking why do some people live longer than others. The factors are many...and complicated. There are generalizations that everybody can agree are good predictors. But there will always be outliers that don't fit the mold.
    16x24 Timber Frame Sugar House
    Mason 2x4 Evaporator
    90 trees on buckets

  9. #9
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    Feb 2021
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    Massachusetts
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    Guess it's a mix bag on the best trees to tap. All my trees are red maple and the best tree in next to my driveway parking area and that could be it has no competition for water. My other good trees are near a pond with a brook going by that. I always try to tap under where the main branches are but that is what I was told by another hobbyist. I agree genetics probably comes in as well

  10. #10
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    Dec 2015
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    Weston, CT
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    As a Atlantic Salmon fisherman of some years now I have fished rivers in the Canadian Maritimes that salmon run in the spring and that salmon run in the fall. The generally accepted reason that some are run in the fall and some are run in the spring ( more commonly the case ) is that a catastrophic failure of one season ( flood scouring or drought ) leaves a secondary backup for possible spawning in another season.

    The maple trees that don't give a drop year after year when I tap them in the spring make me wonder if they give lots of drops in the fall for kind of the same reason Salmon sometimes pick different seasons.

    I notice last late November and early December had what seemed to be some excellent sap flow weather. Would have been a good year to test my theory on those stubborn trees.
    Last edited by Sugar Bear; 03-06-2022 at 08:34 PM.
    If you think it's easy to make good money in maple syrup .... then your obviously good at stealing somebody's Maple Syrup.

    Favorite Tree: Sugar Maple
    Most Hated Animal: Sap Sucker
    Most Loved Animal: Devon Rex Cat
    Favorite Kingpin: Bruce Bascom
    40 Sugar Maple Taps ... 23 in CT and 17 in NY .... 29 on gravity tubing and 11 on 5G buckets ... 2019 Totals 508 gallons of sap, 7 boils, 11.4 gallons of syrup.
    1 Girlfriend that gives away all my syrup to her friends.

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