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Thread: Hot/warm water in shack

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    New Hamburg, ON
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    Default Hot/warm water in shack

    I'm looking for a way to get (low cost) hot/warm water in my shack for general clean up. Not high volume maybe between 10 - 50 gallons.
    2 ideas that I was tossing around were...
    1. Using some setup of coiled copper tubing around/behind the stack. Since this is glowing quite often I thought the radiating heat could be used to heat the water that would be circulating constantly into a barrel. Concerns that I thought of with this setup would be cooling the temperature in my stack affecting the draft and being able to remove the coils when not needed and being able to bend the tubing tight enough around 1/2 of the stack.
    2. Using a new AC condenser and place it over my sap pan (2x4 sap pan) making use of the rising heat/steam from the pan and hopefully getting the heat transferred to the water in the condenser. Once again this would be constantly circulating into a barrel.
    I have estimated the cost of either setup to be about $50-80 (I already have a Aquatec 660 pump to use for circulation).

    Any thoughts if either of these setups would work or would the output of hot/warm water not be worth it?
    Any suggestion on some other way of accomplishing hot/warm water on a budget?
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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Speyside, Ontario
    Posts
    270

    Default

    For 1. some are using that method to preheat sap before entering pan. I'd check on the maximum water temp allowed by the pump and make sure not to exceed it.

    For 2. I'd be more worried about the vapor condensing on the coil and dripping back into the pan.
    2015 - 8 buckets, 332L sap, 8.5L syrup - Barrel evaporator, 2 steam pans
    2016 - 8 buckets, 432L sap
    2017 - 10 bags, 470L sap, 9L syrup
    2018 - 20 bags, 1050L sap, 17.6L syrup
    2019 - 20 bags, 970L sap, 22.2L syrup
    2020 - 17 bags, 813L sap, 17L syrup

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Wakefield,New Hampshire
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    Lots of people do something similar to preheat their sap with good success for the price. I believe you need to make sure there is a vent in the top of the line incase the flow stops for some reason. Otherwise the water could boil and burst, which would be pretty dangerous. I think the key is to make the coil somehow adjustable to pull it away from the stack when needed. I have seen people using this concept on their woodstoves and the hot water naturally circulates if you plumb it properly.

    I wouldn't put a condenser above my pans, in fear it may drip some not necessarily 'food safe' stuff into my pans. That and just regular old condensation adding a little more water to your boil.
    6th season solo sugar maker in a young sugar bush of mostly red maples
    320 taps
    2x6 self built arch, Flat pans w/ dividers
    New 12x16 sugar house
    CDL hobby 250 RO

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
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    New Hamburg, ON
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    A friend of mine had suggested the AC condenser idea. I hadn't thought of something not food safe dripping off or the condensation dripping back into the pan off of the condenser. So probably not the best idea.

    For the copper tubing...
    What would be the best way to bend several 180 degree bends in the tubing?
    Would it cause any cooling in the stack affecting draft?

    I was thinking about wrapping the tubing 1/2 way around the stack. But I'm not sure how I would keep the tubing in place but not touching the stack.
    In the (poor) drawing below, would I need a vent? If the pump stopped for some reason would it just not boil dry and not build pressure since the output is not sealed?
    How many loops would be enough? In the drawing, it would be a 20 ft piece of tubing with each piece around the stack being about 2 ft.
    What size tubing? Would 1/4 inch tubing be too small? 3/8?? 1/2"?

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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Southern Ohio
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    I am not sure how this would work for an evaporator, but here's an idea. My home wood stove is a big steel stove and it has a 20+ gallon steel water reservoir welded right to the outside of it and it will heat water to 165 degrees ( I've checked it). I wouldn't weld a tank on the arch, but maybe just a steel tank on a stand right up against the back and just under the flue pipe would heat up some water. My stove is bricked and it still heats the water. That tank has a valve on it also.
    125-150 taps
    Smokey Lakes Full pint Hybrid pan
    Modified half pint arch
    Air over fire
    All 3/16 tubing
    Southern Ohio

  6. #6
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    Apr 2018
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    New Hamburg, ON
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeye gold View Post
    I am not sure how this would work for an evaporator, but here's an idea. My home wood stove is a big steel stove and it has a 20+ gallon steel water reservoir welded right to the outside of it and it will heat water to 165 degrees ( I've checked it). I wouldn't weld a tank on the arch, but maybe just a steel tank on a stand right up against the back and just under the flue pipe would heat up some water. My stove is bricked and it still heats the water. That tank has a valve on it also.
    Interesting idea. Unfortunately, I don't think it will work since my arch is insulated and bricked so not that much heat coming off of it. The stack puts a lot of heat off though but I do not have room to mount a raise steel tank near the stack.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    Southern Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoerBoel View Post
    Interesting idea. Unfortunately, I don't think it will work since my arch is insulated and bricked so not that much heat coming off of it. The stack puts a lot of heat off though but I do not have room to mount a raise steel tank near the stack.
    I know, thought of that too, but thought I'd throw it out there. My arch is insulated but it still gets pretty warm, but it won't burn you if you touch it. However, you wouldn't want to hold your hand on it for long.

    Thinking about it more, I don't think you'd need to rap around the stack, just a straight piece of copper running along it for a couple feet would get really hot fast.
    125-150 taps
    Smokey Lakes Full pint Hybrid pan
    Modified half pint arch
    Air over fire
    All 3/16 tubing
    Southern Ohio

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    New Hamburg, ON
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeye gold View Post
    IThinking about it more, I don't think you'd need to rap around the stack, just a straight piece of copper running along it for a couple feet would get really hot fast.
    Are you suggesting to run the copper parallel to the pipe for 3-4 ft?
    What about the solder joints? Would they melt if too close to the stack?
    It might be easier to get the straight pipe to "sit" away from the stack.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Southern Ohio
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    I'm just throwing out thoughts, not sure what would work. I don't think solder would melt.
    125-150 taps
    Smokey Lakes Full pint Hybrid pan
    Modified half pint arch
    Air over fire
    All 3/16 tubing
    Southern Ohio

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Williston, VT
    Posts
    615

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    I had posted earlier this year about on-demand tankless water heaters. I got a quote that came in over $4,000 so I decided to stick with the small electric hot water heater tank that I have, at least for now.

    Ken
    Ken & Sherry
    Williston, VT
    16x34 Sugarhouse
    1,500 taps on high vacuum, Electric Releaser & CDL Sap Lifter
    Wood-Fired Leader 30"x10' Vortex Arch & Max Raised Flue with Rev Syrup Pan & CDL1200 RO
    https://www.facebook.com/pumpkinhillmaple/

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