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Thread: Cleaning sap lines

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2002
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    Upper Michigan
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    631

    Default Cleaning sap lines

    Anyone know what chemical these guys are using? They claim it is approved.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WKwepPtCmE&t=85sl

  2. #2
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    Mar 2017
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    Granville, PA
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    Call Jesse. He is a really knowledgeable person and friendly. I'm sure that he will give you all of the information that he can.
    Matt,
    Minehart Gap Maple

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Bristol, VT
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    Maybe this?: https://fivestarchemicals.com/star-san-sanitizer-32-oz

    I've seen references to people using this for cleaning tubing but most of what this guy is saying is pretty suspect so hard saying not knowing...
    About 750 taps on High Vac.
    2.5 x 8 Intens-O-Fire
    Airtech 3 hp LR Pump
    Springtech Elite 500 RO
    14 x 24 Timber Frame SugarHouse
    16 x 22 Sap Shed w/ 1500 gal. + 700 gal. tanks
    www.littlehogbackfarm.com

  4. #4
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    May 2009
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    UVM Proctor Maple Research Center, Underhill Ctr, VT
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    Doesn't really matter what they're using to sanitize with -- that approach is not terribly effective. All sanitizers have a minimum required contact time to be effective (read the label). Typically this is around 5-10 minutes. Sucking sanitizer in through the dropline under vacuum results in a second or less of contact time. The better method is to leave the vacuum off, inject (or squirt) some sanitizer into the drop, plug them and let them dangle (to let the sanitizer sit in the end of the drop), let it sit for 5-10 min (minimum), then turn on the pump, walk back up the lines and unplug to suck the lines dry. Depending on the sanitizer you may need to rinse afterward.

    The other problem with that approach is it isn't economical due to the amount of time required. If you have 10-500 taps and aren't concerned about making money then no problem. If you have 5,000+ taps and do want to make money, this approach is not economically viable -- it just takes far too much time.

    Sanitizers for cleaning maple tubing systems are regulated by the EPA (as pesticides), not FDA. If you look at the label of sanitizers (including Star-San), it will have an EPA registration number, typically not an FDA number. These products are not used in food, they are used to "protect" tubing systems. As far as I know, although some maple producers have mentioned using Star San, it hasn't been researched to any great degree for maple use. I haven't looked into the product enough to advise whether it is allowed for maple (porous and non-porous plastics). I'd advise anyone who does to read the label carefully.

    There are alternative approaches to maintaining high sap yields in tubing systems. There's been a tremendous amount of research on this in the past 15 yrs.
    https://mapleresearch.org/pub/1019sanitation-2/
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z35z...5&index=4&t=8s

    Many people don't sanitize tubing lines at all.
    Last edited by DrTimPerkins; 12-10-2021 at 09:03 AM.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Location
    Parry Sound Area, Ontario
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTimPerkins View Post
    Doesn't really matter what they're using to sanitize with -- that approach is not terribly effective. All sanitizers have a minimum required contact time to be effective (read the label). Typically this is around 5-10 minutes. Sucking sanitizer in through the dropline under vacuum results in a second or less of contact time. The better method is to leave the vacuum off, inject (or squirt) some sanitizer into the drop, plug them and let them dangle (to let the sanitizer sit in the end of the drop), let it sit for 5-10 min (minimum), then turn on the pump, walk back up the lines and unplug to suck the lines dry. Depending on the sanitizer you may need to rinse afterward.

    The other problem with that approach is it isn't economical due to the amount of time required. If you have 10-500 taps and aren't concerned about making money then no problem. If you have 5,000+ taps and do want to make money, this approach is not economically viable -- it just takes far too much time.

    Sanitizers for cleaning maple tubing systems are regulated by the EPA (as pesticides), not FDA. If you look at the label of sanitizers (including Star-San), it will have an EPA registration number, typically not an FDA number. These products are not used in food, they are used to "protect" tubing systems. As far as I know, although some maple producers have mentioned using Star San, it hasn't been researched to any great degree for maple use. I haven't looked into the product enough to advise whether it is allowed for maple (porous and non-porous plastics). I'd advise anyone who does to read the label carefully.

    There are alternative approaches to maintaining high sap yields in tubing systems. There's been a tremendous amount of research on this in the past 15 yrs.
    https://mapleresearch.org/pub/1019sanitation-2/
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z35z...5&index=4&t=8s

    Many people don't sanitize tubing lines at all.
    If a person was to replace the entire drop (spout, drop line and tees) each year, and then on a rotational basis replace the 3/16 lines ( every 3/4 years) would that be sufficient for sanitization purposes?

    I plan on changing my drops from 3/16 to 5/16 next year and connecting them to the 3/16 line. If this is fine, am I’m best to do that in the spring after the sap run or wait until the fall?
    2022 - 5 pan block arch - 109 taps, 73 on 3/16 lines, 36 on drops into 5 gallon pails.
    930 gallons boiled, 109 L (28.8 gals) of delicious syrup made.
    DYI Vacuum Filter
    2023 - 170 taps, mostly on lines, 1153 gallons boiled, 130 L (34.34 gals) of delicious syrup made, on a 2x4 divided pan and base stack, 8” pipe, on a block arch that boiled at a rate of 13 gallons per hour.

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swingpure View Post
    If a person was to replace the entire drop (spout, drop line and tees) each year, and then on a rotational basis replace the 3/16 lines ( every 3/4 years) would that be sufficient for sanitization purposes?
    That would most likely produce good yields, but wouldn't be best economically due to the labor and cost of materials. You'd also want to change any inline unions in the 3/16" tubing at the same time.

    I plan on changing my drops from 3/16 to 5/16 next year and connecting them to the 3/16 line. If this is fine, am I’m best to do that in the spring after the sap run or wait until the fall?
    Won't matter to any substantial degree.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Southern Ohio
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    Here's been my approach . I sanitize at the end of season and plug off lines. I inject sanitizer and let set for about 4 hrs and then drain. In tha fall I cut all drops off at the tee and bring in. I cut off spiles and soak them in Hypochloride solution ( this fall I am also trying some in hot water bath of 170 degrees for 30 minutes). I then install new spiles and tees pn these drops. I then go back out to my lines with these reconditioned drops and cut out all old tees and connectors and install the new drops and couplers. If I have any with mold they get tossed, same with chews. I will cut out any bad spots, chews or mold in my laterals and put in new sections. Every 3 to 5 years (depending on lateral condition) I do all new everything. I have my laterals on a rotation where I'm not doing them all one season. Saddly this years scheduled total replacement laterals are only getting repaired, due to the shortage of 3/16th tubing. I feel like this has worked pretty well for me, right or wrong.
    125-150 taps
    Smokey Lakes Full pint Hybrid pan
    Modified half pint arch
    Air over fire
    All 3/16 tubing
    Southern Ohio

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Location
    Parry Sound Area, Ontario
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    1,346

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DrTimPerkins View Post
    Won't matter to any substantial degree.
    I thought I read in other posts that the ideal setup is 5/16 drops to 3/16 lines. If it does not really matter, than all the better, it saves me buying a 5/16 tool.
    2022 - 5 pan block arch - 109 taps, 73 on 3/16 lines, 36 on drops into 5 gallon pails.
    930 gallons boiled, 109 L (28.8 gals) of delicious syrup made.
    DYI Vacuum Filter
    2023 - 170 taps, mostly on lines, 1153 gallons boiled, 130 L (34.34 gals) of delicious syrup made, on a 2x4 divided pan and base stack, 8” pipe, on a block arch that boiled at a rate of 13 gallons per hour.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Southern Ohio
    Posts
    1,349

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swingpure View Post
    I thought I read in other posts that the ideal setup is 5/16 drops to 3/16 lines. If it does not really matter, than all the better, it saves me buying a 5/16 tool.
    The 5/16th will help keep sap from being drawn back into the tree, but to me is not a big deal. I use all 3/16th. You can use check valve spiles, would be simpler.
    Last edited by buckeye gold; 12-11-2021 at 07:46 AM.
    125-150 taps
    Smokey Lakes Full pint Hybrid pan
    Modified half pint arch
    Air over fire
    All 3/16 tubing
    Southern Ohio

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Stockbridge,Ma
    Posts
    285

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swingpure View Post
    I thought I read in other posts that the ideal setup is 5/16 drops to 3/16 lines. If it does not really matter, than all the better, it saves me buying a 5/16 tool.
    I think what DR. Tim meant is about the timing of when you replaced them, no real difference between spring or fall.
    First introduced to making maple syrup in 1969
    Making syrup every year since 1979
    3 x 10 oil fired
    Revolution syrup and max flue pan
    Almost 1300 taps total with 900 on high vacuum
    Bought first Marcland drawoff in 1997, still going strong.

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