+ Reply to Thread
Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 75

Thread: GE Merlin RO for sap???

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Polk, PA
    Posts
    1,361

    Default

    Gary in NH, would you be willing to share your design?
    136 on high vacuum for 2019
    A&A 2X8, raised flue evaporator
    hood, parallel flow pre heater and air over fire
    12X28 sugar shack

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Caledon, Ontario
    Posts
    2,176

    Default

    If it works I'll share the whole thing with pictures

    If it flops, well .....

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    104

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary R View Post
    Gary in NH, would you be willing to share your design?

    Yes, I will get some pictures onto photobucket and give details here. It mat take a couple of days though.

    Gary
    Gary in NH

    46 taps with buckets, a small homemade RO , two propane fired burners with two stainless steel restaurant pans for pre-heater and evaporator.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Newfield NY
    Posts
    15

    Default I tested a GE Merlin this spring.

    I tested a GE Merlin RO this spring to see what one would do for a smaller maple producer. It worked great except the rated capacity dropped substantially when running sap vs. running water. Instead of a permeate flow of 20 gallons per hour, with sap I was getting between 3 and 5 gallons per hour depending on the sugar concentration of the sap. I used a flow control value and flow meter to monitor concentrate but even at the most limited concentrate flow rates I could only get the sugar content up to 5% at 60 psi. It cut my boiling time in half and saved about half the wood in my back yard with 30 taps but I was hoping it would be more effective for producers in the 100 to 150 tap size.
    ****************************************
    Stephen Childs
    Cornell University
    NYS Maple Extension Specialist
    110 Fernow Hall
    Ithaca, NY 14853-3001
    Phone 607-255-1658
    Fax 607-255-2815
    E-mail: slc18@cornell.edu
    http://maple.dnr.cornell.edu
    http://www.cornellmaple.com

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Whately, Ma.
    Posts
    2,965

    Default

    I'm wondering if it will slow down any more as the membrane ages. But I'd bet that if you are running a pump to maintain 60psi it's got to cost more energy than you are saving or close to it.
    I can see why you where disapointed. it sounded like it was a good idea back when the post first started
    Keith

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Starksboro, Vermont
    Posts
    335

    Default

    Brent was saying that he was taking out around 9 gallons of water a hour out of one RO, he has two so he was taking out 18 gallons total. But he had his pump set at 80 psi. 20 psi more may not sound like alot but it could make a big difference on gph.
    Matt

    2x6 Phaneuf raised flue pans
    homemade oil burning arch & hood
    homemade RO,auto draw-off, releaser,auto-canning valve, filter press, ext.....
    850 taps

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Polk, PA
    Posts
    1,361

    Default

    Stephen,

    Maybe PM Brent and compare notes. It seems like he did a lot of work with his Merlin's this sping. Do you have detail's on the pump's and everything else you used? Sap temperature I think is also a big reason for reduced output. I would also be concerned about cleaning and live time of membranes. But just think about the potential! A hobbyist could more than double the amount of taps for maybe $1000. That sure beats buying a bigger evaporator for $5000 and up.

    Gary

    PS, I wish I would have attended your maple confections workshop in PA. I heard from some attendees it was great!
    136 on high vacuum for 2019
    A&A 2X8, raised flue evaporator
    hood, parallel flow pre heater and air over fire
    12X28 sugar shack

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Buxton, Maine
    Posts
    1,490

    Default

    Is it possible to control the Concentrate output on these machines?

    If so, instead of cranking it down to see how sweet you can get it right out of the RO, open up the concentrate valve and don't try to get it in one pass. Take the concentrate and divert it back into your raw sap tank and let that run for a while. You're still removing water each minute the machine is running. Even though it might seem like your defeating the purpose. Then when the entire batch is sweet enough, run it through one more if you like what you are getting for concentrate, and send that to your head tank on the final pass. Allowing more flow from the concentrate will keep the membrane "open" much longer during your concentration cycle. I'm quite familiar with what it takes when you don't have recirculation. You can get there but takes a little ingenuity.

    Without recirculation on the membranes your production will be much lower than if you had recirculation on the membranes. I don't mean recirculating the sap like I described above. I mean an actual recirculation pump attached to the membrane itself.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Starksboro, Vermont
    Posts
    335

    Default

    I am going to try the Merlins this year. I hooking it up like royalmaple said, puting the concentrate back into my raw sap tank. It would be nice to have 8%-10% sap coming out to boil but with these ro's I don't think you can. I look at it as any water taking out is time and money saved.
    Matt

    2x6 Phaneuf raised flue pans
    homemade oil burning arch & hood
    homemade RO,auto draw-off, releaser,auto-canning valve, filter press, ext.....
    850 taps

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Newfield NY
    Posts
    15

    Default Merlin info

    I tried a number of things when I was testing out the merlin. My first goal was to remove as much water as possible. I obained the most water removal when I ran straight sap and didn't restrict the concentrate flow. When operating this way I was removing between 4.5 and 4.8 gallons of water per hour but when doing it this way my sugar content would only go from about 2.2 in the source sap to 3 to 3.5 in the concentrate. If I ran the concentrate back in with the source sap and recycled it, as the source sap sugar concentration increased over time the water removal rate would decrease. This was not a problem at the speed I boil (pretty slow in my restaurant pan), it just took longer to get more water out. My second goal was to have the sap as sweet as possible when added to the boiling pan. To accomplish this I had to restrict the concentrate to about 5 gallons per hour but this also slowed the water removal rate to 3 gallons per hour or less. It seemed to work best all around to recycle concentrate back into the sap source tank to get the better of both goals. The book for the Merlin said not to exceed operating pressure of 75 psi, I was using a fairly cheap shallow water pump and it maxed out a 60 psi, to go higher I would need a more expensive pump. I also had a 5 micron filter ahead of the RO that may have killed my pressure some.
    Last edited by Stephen Childs; 07-22-2008 at 01:53 PM.
    ****************************************
    Stephen Childs
    Cornell University
    NYS Maple Extension Specialist
    110 Fernow Hall
    Ithaca, NY 14853-3001
    Phone 607-255-1658
    Fax 607-255-2815
    E-mail: slc18@cornell.edu
    http://maple.dnr.cornell.edu
    http://www.cornellmaple.com

+ Reply to Thread
Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts