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Thread: Brand new to tubbing, help!

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Luck WI
    Posts
    11

    Default Brand new to tubbing, help!

    Hello everyone, I am going to be setting up tubing this next season and I want to start getting parts bough and on hand. I am using a shurflo pump with a manifold, I've been told to use 5/16" tubing, my first question is can I run 5/16" all the way from the first tap to the collection tank? I thought I read somewhere that on the smaller scale vacuum setups, your lateral line would work as your main line? I'm thinking between 100-150' for each length, and would splice in 20-25 taps per line. One other question, how many taps would you recommend on a 4.0GPH pump? Thanks for your help.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Lawrence County Ohio
    Posts
    260

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    I've been running about 60 taps into a 4008 I think it's rated at 3.0 gpm. I'm using 3/16 since the rest of my woods are pretty steep. I have 4 laterals on this pump, the longest 800' or so, the shortest a little over 200' with 17 taps and the pump actually pulls this sap up hill and manages 25in/HG or so. I had a few 3 gallon per tap days last season.

    In years past, I had shurflo's on 3/4 mainline with 300 or so taps. I'm not sure of the CFM just overwhelmed the pump or the squirrels overwhelmed my tubing, but i could never get more than 10in/Hg pulling on 3/4". I like the newer shurflo 4 diaphragms a lot better than the older 3 diaphragm pumps made by both shurflo and ever flo, even though one or two everflo's I used were 4 gpm, they only had 3 diaphragms, and would not pull near the vac that the Shurflo 4008 pulls. I'm not sure if it's the extra diaphragm, but it definitely pulls higher Vac. I have not used recirculation, and with the wire mesh strainer, I can let the pump run past freezing, the screen catches the ice and the pump pumps itself dry so nothing to freeze and tear the membrane. Also if I don't make it out until after it thaws, the sap will run through this pump without it being turned on.

    With 2 100 watt solar panels, I don't have to carry a battery out every other day, cost me $200 but saved my back.
    Good luck!!
    2012 15 jugs
    2017 125 3/16 - 18"x 6' drop flue set up
    2018 240 3/16 - Deer Run 125 RO
    2019 450 3/16 - Converted RO to electric, Procon 330 pump & added a membrane
    2020 600 3/16 - Maple Pro 2x6 Raised Flue, added AOF/AUF
    2021 570 3/16 - Built a SS steam hood, new Smoky Lake SS filter press
    2022 800 3/16 - Upgrade RO to 4 4x40's,Procon 660, adding a Sap Guzzler to 400 taps

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Luck WI
    Posts
    11

    Default

    If the woods are pretty flat for the most part, would 3/16" or 5/16" be a better choice? Also with your current setup, your 3/16" line acts as your main and lateral line then? Sorry to ask probably stupid questions, but your input is extremely helpful. Thank you!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Lawrence County Ohio
    Posts
    260

    Default

    3/16 is what I use because on high slope the book says you can run 30 taps per lateral, and 5/16 the recommendation is 5-7 taps per lateral. Most of my sugar bush is very steep and I have up to 150' of drop on some of my laterals so I use 3/16 for the natural vacuum and more taps per line.

    3/16 on gravity will loose it's natural vacuum due to friction when you get to the bottom of the hill and run it across flat ground. The lines I'm pulling with the shurflo run several hundred feet along the bottom of the hill, but that's why I'm using a shurflo. It lets me bring the sap a lot closer to the sugar house.( I'm still pumping it another 300' with a gas powered pump at the end of the day.) And, I'm still gettin better than 2 gal per tap on most days, and some days more than that. I can only speak for what I'm doin. 5/16 could work just as well or better in your situation. I know a lot of people have issues with 3/16 tees plugging up, I clean my lines after the season, and replace all my fittings every three years.

    These lines are laterals. They come into the shurflo on a manifold I made from 1/2" pvc fittings, elbows nipples & tees.
    2012 15 jugs
    2017 125 3/16 - 18"x 6' drop flue set up
    2018 240 3/16 - Deer Run 125 RO
    2019 450 3/16 - Converted RO to electric, Procon 330 pump & added a membrane
    2020 600 3/16 - Maple Pro 2x6 Raised Flue, added AOF/AUF
    2021 570 3/16 - Built a SS steam hood, new Smoky Lake SS filter press
    2022 800 3/16 - Upgrade RO to 4 4x40's,Procon 660, adding a Sap Guzzler to 400 taps

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Luck WI
    Posts
    11

    Default

    Alright, again thank you for your information.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Lawrence County Ohio
    Posts
    260

    Default

    shurflo 2019.jpg Found this photo finally! I have my 3/16 transitioned to 5/16 right at the pump because the only fittings I could find from tubing to 1/2" NPT were 5/16
    2012 15 jugs
    2017 125 3/16 - 18"x 6' drop flue set up
    2018 240 3/16 - Deer Run 125 RO
    2019 450 3/16 - Converted RO to electric, Procon 330 pump & added a membrane
    2020 600 3/16 - Maple Pro 2x6 Raised Flue, added AOF/AUF
    2021 570 3/16 - Built a SS steam hood, new Smoky Lake SS filter press
    2022 800 3/16 - Upgrade RO to 4 4x40's,Procon 660, adding a Sap Guzzler to 400 taps

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Murrysville, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    169

    Default

    I built a manifold using push connect fittings and 3/8 OD poly tubing. I have 3/8 x 1/4 tees with 1/4 valves on each line and used 3/16 barb x 1/4 stem fittings found at freshwatersystems.com.
    https://www.freshwatersystems.com/pr...x-3-16-id-barb

    This worked great for easily disconnecting lines and being able to isolate them via the valves if necessary.

    Video of it here at 1:40 seconds:
    https://youtu.be/ni3ScN3lhZs
    D. Roseum
    www.roseummaple.com
    ~100 taps on 3/16 custom temp controlled vacuum; custom nat gas evap with temp and level controllers; homemade RO; SL SS filter press
    2021: 27.1 gallons

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Luck WI
    Posts
    11

    Default

    Sorry to ask probably a stupid question, but I have to adjoining properties, 1 is almost completely flat and the other does have some slope to it(let's go with 15' for conversation) if I run 3/16" lines on the flat ground and finish going to the sloped trees with a shurflo pump would this be a good option? Again thank you for your help.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Center, Underhill Ctr, VT
    Posts
    5,695

    Default

    3/16" tubing is not good on flat ground. Think of it as a slope that you sled down. When it's steep, you really fly (good vacuum). If you have a flat spot at the bottom, you'll slow down (poor vacuum) and stop (no vacuum or even backpressure). If you add a Shurflo pump to it, you're basically adding a sled-dog to pull you across the flat area. But the 3/16" tubing is going to make it harder for the pump to work for you. In this case (flat ground), 5/16" is probably more highly indicated.

    You say you have a 15' drop in the other section....but how long of a tubing run is that on?
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Peru, Maine
    Posts
    791

    Default

    I believe what Dr. Tim described is what we witnessed on our 1 run of 3/16" we tried last year. We have 31 taps on a moderate slope.....40' of drop over 500' of line which is an 8% slope that is a consistent 8% from top to bottom. Sounds great, right? But the last 50' to the barrel is much flatter, maybe a 2%. We were not happy with the results. The sap yield was proportionately less (compared to the other bushes) than what we had gotten in years past from these trees on 3 runs of 5/16". We are going to try it one more year with a Shurflo setup on the 3/16" to see if it does indeed help in the flat section near the end. We also will have a vacuum gauge this year so we know better what is going on. Hoping it works because 1 run of 3/16" is a lot cheaper and easier than setting up a mainline and 5/16" with laterals. We plan to replace the 1 line of 3/16" every 2 seasons and drops every 4th season if it works.
    270 taps on 2 Shurflo's, 31 taps on 3/16" and 120 taps on gravity. 421 total for 2021 season.
    Mountain Maple S3 controller for 145 of the vacuum taps
    2x6 Darveau Mystique Oil Fired Evaporator w/ Smoky Lake Simplicity Auto Draw
    Wesfab 7” filter press
    IBC totes in the woods, 800 Gallon CDL bulk tank at the shack

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