Crane 2 Post RO

[darkmachine]

My plan was just to run them in series, as in the flow will run from the pump to the first membrane, then to the second. My concentrate line will come off my second membrane housing, and i'll time the two permeate lines together. This was the configuration the RO i started with used. At this point I'm in about $1200 with the parts, if i can make the 1/2 horse work this season, i'll likely go to a 3/4 or more next season. Id have to dig into the tubing budget to upgrade the motor at this point. The spec sheet that came with the procon had a range of operating hp starting at 1/4 and going up with an operating rpm of 1725. I have not purchased my membranes yet. I could wait to add the second membrane until next season and just plumb in one vessel. feedback is good! I've never used an RO before, any information or experience is helpful.

[bmbmkr]

https://www.proconpumps.com/content/...0Pump_spec.pdf This is the pump curve for the Procon 330 ( and smaller).

1/2 hp is only going to get you to 100 PSI. You'll be lucky to get 50/50 with 100 PSI. With 500 taps you are goin to want more flow than that. Unless of course you are boiling off with a 75-100 gph evaporator. I got my 1 1/2 hp Leeson for $200 from surplus supply center. They are gettin hard to find though, mostly 2 hp out there now, and hard to find a 56C in 1725 RPM. Is your pump the clamp ring kind or the bolt on?

[darkmachine]

I purchased the clamp on type because it matched the motor and pump that was originally on the RO. I only have 110v at the shack, i haven't seen many motors that are over 3/4 hp that aren't 220v. The pump that was on it was 102A125F11XX, it made 200psi with two 2.5" x 40 membranes(instructions said to run at 200psi). I realize sap is not water. Can i still expect the same concentration exiting the machine even if it's not at a higher rate. If i understnad correctly pressure is what will increase the permeate flow, speeding up the concentration.

[sweet spot maple addict]

Once Pressure created by the closure of the restriction valve is over the force of osmotic pressure , permeate flow is initiated.
Over a certain maximum pressure ........fouling is initiated !!!!
Your RO made 200psi with two 2.5 inches, maybe , but you will now be pushing through two 4 inches .

[darkmachine]

The membranes I am considering might compensate somewhat for a lower pressure concentrate because of a lower horsepower motor.
from the membrane listing...

• XLP-4040 standard flow is 2300 GPD @ 100 PSI ,Now if you lower the pressure to 60 PSI, pressure lowered 40% ,therefore permeate flow will be approximately 1440GPD

​I am sure this is just for water, but i'll record my results!

[carls47807]

You need at least 100psi to get an efficient separation from 2 to 4% sugar. If you want to go over 4%, I would shoot for 200psi. Those gpd numbers from the manufacturer are for 60 F water. At sap temp the membrane is about 1/4 as efficient at pulling water. With a single 4x40 you would want a minimum 1hp motor if you are using a 330gph. You can get by with a 3/4hp if you run less than 150psi, but you may have issues with a constant duty cycle.

Luckily for the vane type pumps, the flow rate is relatively independent of pressure (you will get the full 330gph across the membrane regardless of what pressure you run at). This helps keep fouling down.

[darkmachine]

You need at least 100psi to get an efficient separation from 2 to 4% sugar. If you want to go over 4%, I would shoot for 200psi. Those gpd numbers from the manufacturer are for 60 F water. At sap temp the membrane is about 1/4 as efficient at pulling water. With a single 4x40 you would want a minimum 1hp motor if you are using a 330gph. You can get by with a 3/4hp if you run less than 150psi, but you may have issues with a constant duty cycle.

Luckily for the vane type pumps, the flow rate is relatively independent of pressure (you will get the full 330gph across the membrane regardless of what pressure you run at). This helps keep fouling down.

It seems like my pump choice may have been less than ideal. I can't seem to find a motor that is more than 3/4hp that uses the collar style attachment. The motor that is on the unit is 100% duty cycle, so it should run ok as long as i don't over work it, it may be on the warm side...I'll keep looking for a bigger motor...if anyone has one, or knows where i can purchase one let me know!

[bmbmkr]

The membranes I am considering might compensate somewhat for a lower pressure concentrate because of a lower horsepower motor.
from the membrane listing...

• XLP-4040 standard flow is 2300 GPD @ 100 PSI ,Now if you lower the pressure to 60 PSI, pressure lowered 40% ,therefore permeate flow will be approximately 1440GPD

​I am sure this is just for water, but i'll record my results!

Membranes are rated for 70F Water, you are goin to running 33-40F sap through em, the efficiency% goes WAY down. I got my first membranes from amazon, they were supposed to be Dow XLE 4040's ( Extra Low Energy) they were supposed to be 2800 GPD if I remember right. One of em was a Dow, the other a chinese knockoff. H20, CDL and MES and maybe more, all sell membranes made specific to sap production in the 2600-2800 GPD range that require less pressure.

With the 1/2hp pump, I don't think you'll have to worry about passing sugar or fouling the membranes. That's a plus. How fast is your evaporator?

[darkmachine]

The membranes are from Maxx water, they mention maple production in their listing. I considered MES, I may still go with them. I found my solution though, Kleenrite sells an adapter for 56c motor to allow you to use a clamp on procon. I get about 35 to 40 with good dry wood. Ro this year new flu pan and preheater next season.

[bmbmkr]

That adapter is cool! much cheaper than the aluminum one. Glad ya found it. I got both my Procons from Edco distributing. Got my adapter for the 330 at Kleenrite, and the one for my new 660 I got from Mcmaster Carr. They must have a warehouse next to the UPS terminal, I ordered on Thursday and it was at my house on Friday morning.