Crane 2 Post RO

[darkmachine]

I just purchased an RO, it's an older(2009) unit from a closed restaurant. I have been over the machine(not plugged it in yet), and it seems to be in very good shape for something that was in a commercial kitchen. I know it needs new membranes, i'm almost certain they are sitting in the water they were filtering when it was turned off. Also the procon pump. when i run the numbers on the pump it shows it as use only for non food grade applications, weird since it came out of a restaurant. The current pump is a 125gph, and if i'm going to buy a new pump i'd like to go to 330gph with the idea of upgrading to two 4040 membranes in the future.

The membranes are 2540, which is not typical but they are available.

Can someone tell me if i'm missing something else i should replace right off? This is my first RO so be gentle

[darkmachine]

Had another thought while shopping for a pump and membranes. For less than the cost of two new 2540 membranes I could get a 4040 housing and membrane and change out, then add another 4040 post as I expand. The composite pressure vessels are nice though, is this just an economic/production decision or are there any good reasons to go to the 4040. Thanks in advance!

[sweet spot maple addict]

Good afternoon

Have a look at this post.

http://mapletrader.com/community/sho...-Design-our-RO

This is a nice unit that can eventually do good for you
The pump is probably sufficient to run two 2540 in series , and you already have the canister/housing
I dont see a pressure valve , they must be one at the exit of the second membrane
You will need a flowmeter on the permeate side and one on the concentrate side to monitor membrane operation parameters with sap , maximum recovery among other things.
But if you are up to 500 taps ....i would go for the 4040 and the procon 330 , and set up/plumb the thing for addition of a second membrane in mind !!!

Pierre
200 taps on 3/16
RO 4x40 , procon 330
A wife that understand the basic of sugar making and the complexities of the sugarmakers !!!
And a good Shetland dog named Brix.

[darkmachine]

I purchased the clamp on type because it matched the motor and pump that was originally on the RO. I only have 110v at the shack, i haven't seen many motors that are over 3/4 hp that aren't 220v. The pump that was on it was 102A125F11XX, it made 200psi with two 2.5" x 40 membranes(instructions said to run at 200psi). I realize sap is not water. Can i still expect the same concentration exiting the machine even if it's not at a higher rate. If i understnad correctly pressure is what will increase the permeate flow, speeding up the concentration.

[sweet spot maple addict]

Once Pressure created by the closure of the restriction valve is over the force of osmotic pressure , permeate flow is initiated.
Over a certain maximum pressure ........fouling is initiated !!!!
Your RO made 200psi with two 2.5 inches, maybe , but you will now be pushing through two 4 inches .

[darkmachine]

I'm at a crossroads. I am upgrading the pressure pump motor to 1.5hp. My question is should a purchase a second needle valve for re-circulation OR use the 1/2hp motor and pump that came with the unit for re-circulation. I can't recall right off hand but the procon(it's brass) that came with the unit is rated at about 125gph. I have read that a pump is more effective at slowing membrane fouling, and since I have it, technically it's cheaper than buying a needle valve, is my answer that simple?

Thanks

[bmbmkr]

She's looking good!

[bmbmkr]

I went back and re-read the thread, and somehow i missed the part where my question about using the 125gph pump for recirc might be a bottle neck, lol. That's what I get for skimming. Thanks Sweet Spot Maple. Looks like a second needle valve is in my future. Down the road when i upgrade to an 8" membrane maybe i'll go with a shallow well pump for re-circulation.

Recirculation, with or without a pump, increases concentration. Recirculation with a second pump increases flow and concentration.

Procons are positive displacement pumps, as long as your HP for your recirculation pump motor meets the pump curve and can build the same pressure as your pressure pump, it will increase flow, thus reducing fouling. 330gph (5.5 gpm) + 125 (2gpm) = 7.5 gpm or 33% more flow.

What Sweet Spot brought to my attention- the recirculation feed teeing off the concentrate output of the membrane before the main pressure concentration valve. In the schematic I drew up, and the RO I have 90% complete, I put a second needle valve after the main concentration valve to feed the recirc pump so that I could choose whether to recirculate or not. The only reason I used a needle valve instead of a ball or gate valve, was because i already had it. I HAVE been pondering whether enough the small port would allow enough flow to feed my pump. This is what I love about this firum, so easy to learn if you take the time to read. SO my second control valve is coming off and a tee goin on.

On to the check valve.

The reason I put a check valve in between the recirculation out put and pressure pump feed is so the pressure pump doesn't push the initial feed into the recirc pump backwards. I kinda figured this one out on my own, and another member commented on one of my previous threads confirmed that this is how he plumbed his system. He was using the same size pressure pump as recirculation pump- that's something for me to wrap my head around another time.

I've just revised my drawing, and I have an excel spreadsheet you can punch in your RO and evaporator/tap#'s I can email it- if you want a copy let me know bmbmkr@yahoo.com

Y'all have a good one,

Ben Walker

[bmbmkr]

https://www.proconpumps.com/content/...0Pump_spec.pdf This is the pump curve for the Procon 330 ( and smaller).

1/2 hp is only going to get you to 100 PSI. You'll be lucky to get 50/50 with 100 PSI. With 500 taps you are goin to want more flow than that. Unless of course you are boiling off with a 75-100 gph evaporator. I got my 1 1/2 hp Leeson for $200 from surplus supply center. They are gettin hard to find though, mostly 2 hp out there now, and hard to find a 56C in 1725 RPM. Is your pump the clamp ring kind or the bolt on?

[darkmachine]

Had a few minutes in the shop today and was able to get my pressure vessels mounted today. You can see the high pressure pump, I have a feed pump to mount on the plate on the bottom. Next project is the control panel, mounting the switches, relay, pressure gauge and flow meters. and before i finish the plumbing decide if i want to upgrade the motor.