How many trees is too many?

[Swingpure]

Check out maple tech tools online. That's where I got my new one handed tool from. They are about half the price of others and work good. I pre made all my drops that I thought I was going to use last year in about twenty minutes, not bad for 50. I will have a better idea this fall when I put up the line and cut in the drops how they work out.

Thanks, I have sent them an email to see if they ship to Canada. Sometimes the cost of bringing items across the border can make them quite expensive. Sometimes I wish I still had my house in Arizona.

I can see how that tool could really save time.

[Swingpure]

I purchased some rope and today I simulated running sap lines, trying to join up a string of trees. The first run, I connected 8 trees and used 200’ of rope. The second run, I connected 10 trees and used about 325’ of rope.

I paused and thought you only truly get the benefit of the 3/16” line, when you have 15 to 25 trees and I am not getting close to that. I then thought it made more sense for me to connect 4-6 trees and not have the long runs between some trees. It would make better use of the 600’ of hose I have. It still would be a time saver for me. It was good experience getting a feel for curving the line around the trees.

I then went over to my neighbour who removes his line at the end of the season. My first question was how well did he match up his old line with the drops and he said most of the time he ran new line, but kept his drops and reconnected them to the new line. He did keep some old line. He also said that his lines were mostly only four to five trees, because how they were located in the forest.

Once again doing a dry run has helped me understand my own variables and limitations.

[Swingpure]

Have you considered building a small Reverse Osmosis (RO) unit to cut your boiling time and wood usage in half or even more?

Its the absolute best thing I did. It let's me tap way more trees, use way less fuel and get it done way faster. There is tons of info on this site about how to build a small scale DIY unit. They are reasonably priced when you do it yourself.

I'd be glad to give you some recommendations on this as well. I have built 2 of these. One used the biggest aquatec pump and the 2nd used the biggest coronwater pump (even high flowrate). I moved up from 36 trees to 100 when I made that change.

RO basics: https://youtu.be/s106bSrcfno
2nd unit I built: https://youtu.be/9_Eq_sq6Tp0

I rewatched your first video again with the simpler setup and I understand it better now and feel like I can build this. Not sure if I will or not, but if I did, would this small unit save me about 25% of my boil time?

Can I run this during the day beside my evaporator basically outdoors, or is better to do it inside a 40° temperature garage? Outdoors, beside the evaporator would be handier, but I could be boiling somedays where it is below freezing.

Last question, if I have a 55 gallon sap container, how large of a pure water container would I need for the water extracted from the sap?

[DRoseum]

It will cut boil time and wood use in half. You can run it outside but you do not want to let the membranes freeze. It would damage them.

You should have capacity for half of your sap for the permeate output. You use that afterwards to rinse system/membranes out. So if you start with 55 gallons of sap, you will get 27.5 gallons of permeate (pure water - save this for rinse/flush) and 27.5 gallons of concentrate.

You can put concentrate back into sap barrel or into your 5 gallon buckets to feed the evap.

[Swingpure]

In your video you show one pump, but in your list of parts you show two pumps. Do I just need the one aquatec pump or equivalent?

So my plan if i build the RO, would be to collect the morning sap, put it into the 55 gallon barrel, run it through the RO and recirculate it all day into and out of the 55 gallon barrel. The permeate would go into another barrel. At the end of the day, I would empty the concentrated sap into 5 gallon pails and store them overnight with lids in snow banks. I would boil and empty the 5 gallon pails during the day and fill them again at the end of the day with the new concentrate.

In your video you talk about that you would show how to clean the system at the end of the day, is that on another video?

Would the one membrane, if you clean it daily, last a season?

Thanks

[Swingpure]

Hmmmm, reading other posts on RO’s, it seems like you should boil the concentrate as soon as possible, so that would mean collecting the sap at the end of the day, run it through the RO overnight and boil it the next day.

[DRoseum]

Just one pump is all you need. You can use either the aquatec or a coronwater pump. The aquatec is decent for smaller setups like my original build. The coronwater has a higher flowrate at 100 psi (which is the pressure you need to operate at for most membranes to work). The higher flowrate is good for larger membranes (which means faster processing) and for reducing the fouling of the membranes (more turbulent flow across membranes reduces what gets stuck in/on the membrane surfaces during processsing). I currently use that pump with 5 of the 400 gpd membranes. I repurposed the aquatec to be a vacuum pump on my 3/16 lines.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GKG3R7U...p_mob_ap_share

https://m.aliexpress.com/i/400077011...Adapt=Pc2Msite

You will need a 24V DC power supply with at least 8 - 10 amp rating for the coronwater pump. But if you stick with 80+ taps I would recommend that pump and you can add more membranes in series later on to increase concentration. I was taking 1.5% sap to 7.5% sap before even boiling. Huge time/fuel savings. You don't have to really watch or tend to a small RO like this. It does the work while you are away, sleeping, boiling, etc. I have mine start automatically so I can be ready to start boiling as soon as I get off work.

One membrane can last years of you care for it properly. The sediment filter should be replaced often throughout the season.

Rinsing/flushing video is separate. Have one for end of season cleaning/storing as well.

Flushing: https://youtu.be/MP1NNt3b2Oo

New RO with controls: https://youtu.be/9_Eq_sq6Tp0

Anyone who bought or built an RO will tell you its the best thing they ever did. Start simple and evolve from there. Tons of great info on this site to build one. Or buy an RO bucket kit. They are not much more than sourcing all the parts yourself.

[DRoseum]

Hmmmm, reading other posts on RO’s, it seems like you should boil the concentrate as soon as possible, so that would mean collecting the sap at the end of the day, run it through the RO overnight and boil it the next day.

Yes boil the concentrate as soon as possible and store it as cold as possible if you will have slight delays in boiling. You are concentrating both the sugar the bacteria feeds on and the bacteria itself in the process. Concentrate can spoil quicker than raw sap.

[Swingpure]

With the Coronwater pump, how long would it take to process 50 gallons of sap, ready for the evaporator?

Edit: I finally understood what GPD is. I read that if the fluid is cold, it halves it’s capacity, so if I had a 400 GPD membrane, it could do 50 gallons in 6 hours if I understand it correctly. So if you have two 400 GPD membranes, does it process it any faster, or does it just take more water out?

[82cabby]

Just one pump is all you need. You can use either the aquatec or a coronwater pump. The aquatec is decent for smaller setups like my original build. The coronwater has a higher flowrate at 100 psi (which is the pressure you need to operate at for most membranes to work). The higher flowrate is good for larger membranes (which means faster processing) and for reducing the fouling of the membranes (more turbulent flow across membranes reduces what gets stuck in/on the membrane surfaces during processsing). I currently use that pump with 5 of the 400 gpd membranes. I repurposed the aquatec to be a vacuum pump on my 3/16 lines.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GKG3R7U...p_mob_ap_share

https://m.aliexpress.com/i/400077011...Adapt=Pc2Msite

You will need a 24V DC power supply with at least 8 - 10 amp rating for the coronwater pump. But if you stick with 80+ taps I would recommend that pump and you can add more membranes in series later on to increase concentration. I was taking 1.5% sap to 7.5% sap before even boiling. Huge time/fuel savings. You don't have to really watch or tend to a small RO like this. It does the work while you are away, sleeping, boiling, etc. I have mine start automatically so I can be ready to start boiling as soon as I get off work.

One membrane can last years of you care for it properly. The sediment filter should be replaced often throughout the season.

Rinsing/flushing video is separate. Have one for end of season cleaning/storing as well.

Flushing: https://youtu.be/MP1NNt3b2Oo

New RO with controls: https://youtu.be/9_Eq_sq6Tp0

Anyone who bought or built an RO will tell you its the best thing they ever did. Start simple and evolve from there. Tons of great info on this site to build one. Or buy an RO bucket kit. They are not much more than sourcing all the parts yourself.

Would you mind posting links to the parts you used for the heater, including the 24v power supply and controller? That is a much better system than the light bulbs I use!