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Thread: How many trees is too many?

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
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    Murrysville, Pennsylvania
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swingpure View Post
    I have a steep slope where I am doing most of the tapping on my property, as you can see by my driveway in the attached picture. Looking at it, it makes sense for me to do: Two, seven tap lines, one six tap line and one four tap line. Is that kosher? It would reduce 24 pick up locations to four. I would have a 5 gallon pail at the receiving end of the lines.

    I am leaning towards 5/16 line and will chat with the CDL guy about it Wednesday.

    If you have tree 2 about three feet off line of a stretched line between trees 1 and 3, could you run a three foot drop line to the line running between 1 and 3, or do you have to run the line to tree 2?

    I have seen two tools used when they were running lines. One was a too, that was simply for cutting the line. The other tool held the line, cut it, and squeezed the two ends of the line onto a fitting. Are any, or both essential?

    Attachment 22500
    I would suggest running it right around that tree. Small zig zags like that is totally normal. I was previously referring to large (like 30 feet) and multiple zip zags that might make sense to separate that into 2 lines.

    You might overflow 5 gallon pails unless you plan to collect multiple times a day.

    The tool that has the line, cuts it, squeezes in the fitting is awesome - highly recommend that type of tool.

    CDL rep will steer you in the right direction. Both sizes are good, but with right slope and right number of trees on the line, 3/16 has been shown to double sap yield.
    D. Roseum
    www.roseummaple.com
    ~100 taps on 3/16 custom temp controlled vacuum; custom nat gas evap with temp and level controllers; homemade RO; SL SS filter press
    2021: 27.1 gallons

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
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    Parry Sound Area, Ontario
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRoseum View Post
    You might overflow 5 gallon pails unless you plan to collect multiple times a day.

    The tool that has the line, cuts it, squeezes in the fitting is awesome - highly recommend that type of tool.
    Not sure what else to put at the end to catch the sap. Whatever it is I would have to drain into 5 gallon pails or scoop it out. They would be in places I could not get my ATV close. I will have to research the best option.

    I just checked the cost of that tool. I could almost get an RO unit for the cost of it. Slick tool though. Maybe I should have taken up this hobby before I retired so I could afford the cool equipment.

  3. #13
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    Parry Sound Area, Ontario
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    I could just add a second five gallon pail beside the other one to collect the sap, with a tube joining the two together, near the top, with the second pail sitting slightly lower. That would double my capacity. I am sure there still will be days that I will have to check them twice, that that would be better than checking 24, 2 gallon pails twice.

    If I come across a deal on larger capacity containers with spouts I will add them.

    I am looking forward to my meeting with CDL tomorrow.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Williston, VT
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    411

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    For what it's worth -

    lf I was challenged to find additional firewood then I'd be thinking of a different fuel for my evaporator. Besides, there's only so much logging/hauling/buckingup/splitting/stacking a person wants to do and you're already near my limit. What are you going to do in a few more years when working hard isn't as easy as it used to be?


    Ken
    Last edited by TapTapTap; 09-08-2021 at 06:20 AM.
    Ken & Sherry
    Williston, VT

    2017 - 13 gallons on 65 taps (12 buckets, rest 3/16), 2x4 flat bottom, modified cargo box sugarhouse
    2018 - 90 gallons on 418 taps (gravity lines), Leader 30"x10' Vortex Arch & Max Raised Flue with Rev Syrup Pan, New Sugarhouse
    2019 - Burned through alot more money: heated kitchen, 2x2,000 and 375 gal ss sap tanks, CDL1200 RO, Bauch Vac Pump, More taps, etc., etc., etc.
    https://www.facebook.com/pumpkinhillmaple/

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    chester, ma
    Posts
    561

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    You raised the question yourself: how many trees is too many. Here is a mental exercise: Do you really want to tackle every single issue in maple sugaring on your first season? What do you want all that syrup for anyway? If you could tap half the number of trees, not have to deal with an RO, running lines, swimming in sap, finding and splitting more wood, etc, you could focus better on the important things: the boil and the bottle. And dare I say, you might do a better job of it.

    Up to you.

    GO
    2016: Homemade arch from old woodburning stove; 2 steam tray pans; 6 taps; 1.1 galls
    2017: Same setup. 15 taps; 4.5 galls
    2018: Same setup. Limited time. 12 taps and short season; 2.2 galls
    2019: Very limited time. 7 taps and a short season; 1.8 galls
    2020: New Mason 2x3 XL halfway through season; 9 taps 2 galls
    2021: Same 2x3, 18 taps, 4.5 galls
    2022: 23 taps
    All taps on buckets

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Location
    Parry Sound Area, Ontario
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    Quote Originally Posted by TapTapTap View Post
    For what it's worth -

    lf I was challenged to find additional firewood then I'd be thinking of a different fuel for my evaporator. Besides, there's only so much logging/hauling/buckingup/splitting/stacking a person wants to do and you're already near my limit. What are you going to do in a few more years when working hard isn't as easy as it used to be?


    Ken
    I turn 66 soon and although cutting down trees, cutting them up, hauling them away, splitting and stacking them is not a problem and is almost enjoyable now, I know over the course of the next ten years, that likely will change. However it will not be the source of the fuel for the evaporator that will change, it will be the source of heat for the house. Lol

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Williston, VT
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    411

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swingpure View Post
    I turn 66 soon and although cutting down trees, cutting them up, hauling them away, splitting and stacking them is not a problem and is almost enjoyable now, I know over the course of the next ten years, that likely will change. However it will not be the source of the fuel for the evaporator that will change, it will be the source of heat for the house. Lol

    I'm glad you have your priorities straight because I think that wood fire evaporators make the best syrup.


    Ken
    Ken & Sherry
    Williston, VT

    2017 - 13 gallons on 65 taps (12 buckets, rest 3/16), 2x4 flat bottom, modified cargo box sugarhouse
    2018 - 90 gallons on 418 taps (gravity lines), Leader 30"x10' Vortex Arch & Max Raised Flue with Rev Syrup Pan, New Sugarhouse
    2019 - Burned through alot more money: heated kitchen, 2x2,000 and 375 gal ss sap tanks, CDL1200 RO, Bauch Vac Pump, More taps, etc., etc., etc.
    https://www.facebook.com/pumpkinhillmaple/

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Location
    Parry Sound Area, Ontario
    Posts
    290

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    Quote Originally Posted by berkshires View Post
    You raised the question yourself: how many trees is too many. Here is a mental exercise: Do you really want to tackle every single issue in maple sugaring on your first season? What do you want all that syrup for anyway? If you could tap half the number of trees, not have to deal with an RO, running lines, swimming in sap, finding and splitting more wood, etc, you could focus better on the important things: the boil and the bottle. And dare I say, you might do a better job of it.

    Up to you.

    GO
    I hear you. I had actually decided to pass up the new area that had 21 trees. Partially because of just what you are saying and partially I did not like the fact I could not keep a close eye on it.

    I am going to try the lines, figuring that should leave me more time to boil and finish. My number one goal is to make Grade A syrup. I will have about 42 trees to tap. I hope to have 1/2 to 3/4’s or the taps on line. We will see how it works.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Location
    Parry Sound Area, Ontario
    Posts
    290

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRoseum View Post
    Zig-zagging is fine, but don't go overboard. Too much zig-zagging uses more tubing and reduces the vertical drop per linear foot which reduces efficiency of the line (friction). If you have very wide zip zag paths perhaps consider running 2 lines to minimize that.

    3/16 is used when you have fairly large elevation drops and can induce natural vacuum on the tree taps. The size is optimized between friction losses and not allowing air bubbles pass and the sap itself acts as a piston in a cylinder, pulling a vacuum behind it and drawing out more sap. You want about 15 trees per line if using 3/16 and about 25-30 feet of total elevation drop with about 10 feet of drop at the end to maximize the benefits of 3/16.

    5/16 works well for everything else.

    No need to elevate your line above you highest tap. Just get it as high as you can on that tree. Use a line end hook fitting that let's you wrap the tubing around the tree and cinch it tight. The end hooks have a fitting for a drop line/tap as well.
    I went to CDL today. He suggested that I go with the 3/16 line. He said I may not have enough trees to really get the benefit of the line, that it would not hurt me and I may get some pressure benefit from it. He told me to try and connect as many trees as possible, as long as the line was tight and always going downhill. I purchased the line and the connectors today, also a tension hook. I may eventually buy a tool to put the line onto the connectors

    He also told me I only had to filter once and that was after I finished it.

    I bought some bottles and caps while I was there. Earlier I picked up my stainless steel bottling pot and my stainless steel 8 gallon pot, that I will use to store partially boiled sap. I also bought a 35 cm(14”) wide funnel, that I will use to direct the sap from the bucket filter into the bottling pot.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Nashville, MI
    Posts
    490

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    Check out maple tech tools online. That's where I got my new one handed tool from. They are about half the price of others and work good. I pre made all my drops that I thought I was going to use last year in about twenty minutes, not bad for 50. I will have a better idea this fall when I put up the line and cut in the drops how they work out.
    2004 - 2012 2x3 flat pan 25 to 60 taps
    2012 2x3 new divided pan w/draw off 55 taps
    2018 - didn't boil surgery - bought new evaporator
    2019 new SML 2x4 raised flue high output evap. 65 taps
    made 17 gal syrup
    2020 - only put out 53 taps - made 16.25 gal syrup
    2021 - going for 50 bags and 50 on tubing

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