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Thread: Single pass to 20% advice

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    Indiana, PA
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    Default Single pass to 20% advice

    Hi all,
    I currently have a lapierre 600 with a 5hp high pressure pump and one tower. I'd like to be able to single pass to 20% next season, running straight to a working bulk tank instead of recirculating and losing quality. I'm not necessarily worried about throughput speed. If I have options what's the best beyond just buying a new RO. (out of the budget) I'm thinking a second tower with a booster pump between is the best but haven't firmed up any details.
    Thanks in advance!
    -Andy
    Andy's Own Maple
    Andy Kinter (4th + generation maple producer)
    Approx 790 taps on vacuum

    3x10 nat. gas fired raised flue small bros.
    600 gph Lapierre RO
    Fine collection of used bulk tanks
    Kubota MX5100 sap hauler
    2 hives (that I don't spend enough time on)
    A great family that works together to make syrup!

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Andys...27718203945398
    http://photobucket.com/mapleack

  2. #2
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    Nov 2013
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    N.E.Ohio
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    You would definitely need a second tower. 20 percent is difficult to get even with a two post, you would probably be looking at a three post type numbers if you would like to have much output. Speak with your sales rep, but 20 on a single post is probably not going to happen unless your raw sap is 5 percent or better

  3. #3
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    Oct 2006
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    Garrettsville,Ohio
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    best to trade yours in and get a 2 post expandable. this will give you 2 to 22% one pass at 120 gal/hr concentrate. what you have now will need bigger pumps and still not give you your moneys worth. that should give you a close 1 to 1 with your evaporator and not going higher than that will work without changing your pans flat surface.
    Last edited by fred; 06-21-2021 at 07:35 PM.
    Fred Ahrens
    330-206-1606
    Richards Maple Products
    Ohio CDL sales rep

    dont take life too serious, nobody gets out alive anyways

  4. #4
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    Indiana, PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kh7722 View Post
    You would definitely need a second tower. 20 percent is difficult to get even with a two post, you would probably be looking at a three post type numbers if you would like to have much output. Speak with your sales rep, but 20 on a single post is probably not going to happen unless your raw sap is 5 percent or better
    Thanks, I’m not concerned that much about concentrate output rate, the plan is only boiling once a week.
    Andy's Own Maple
    Andy Kinter (4th + generation maple producer)
    Approx 790 taps on vacuum

    3x10 nat. gas fired raised flue small bros.
    600 gph Lapierre RO
    Fine collection of used bulk tanks
    Kubota MX5100 sap hauler
    2 hives (that I don't spend enough time on)
    A great family that works together to make syrup!

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Andys...27718203945398
    http://photobucket.com/mapleack

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Williston, VT
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    505

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    Quote Originally Posted by mapleack View Post
    I'd like to be able to single pass to 20% next season, running straight to a working bulk tank instead of recirculating and losing quality. I'm not necessarily worried about throughput speed.
    I'm not following your concern about quality from recirculating if you have a working bulk tank. It seems that heat introduced into the concentrate to achieve 20 % would be similar no matter how many passes - except for some compounded energy losses that unfortunately dissipate to the concentrate. Even so, the bulk tank allows you to chill it back down. Therefore, I think you as already have a very efficient process.
    Ken
    Ken & Sherry
    Williston, VT
    16x34 Sugarhouse
    1,500 taps on high vacuum, Electric Releaser & CDL Sap Lifter
    Wood-Fired Leader 30"x10' Vortex Arch & Max Raised Flue with Rev Syrup Pan & CDL1200 RO
    https://www.facebook.com/pumpkinhillmaple/

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Vermont
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    115

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    if you are not worried about output i would say add another 8 inch post and a 4inch post (possibly a booster pump but it would have to be a small one). Even at that you will be pushing it.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Verona, NY
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    399

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    add another tower- lapierre units are very easy to expand, theyre not limited like many others are. talk to your local dealer about it.
    5000 taps on vacuum, just trying to get a little better every year.

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    UVM Proctor Maple Research Center, Underhill Ctr, VT
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    Normally an RO membrane can achieve (under optimal conditions) about a 4.7X increase in sap sugar concentration. So if you're starting with 2 Brix sap, you'd be able to get to 9.4 Brix. Sometimes machines can be tweaked to do better, but you're probably pushing beyond normal operating conditions, which can have unintended (often bad) consequences.

    In order to get higher, you'd have to have 2 membranes in sequence. The first would bump up the sap sugar to one level and the second to a higher level. The problem this causes if using only 2 membranes is that the feed rate into the second membrane may be too low, which can result in accelerated membrane fouling. The solution there is generally to have 2 membranes plumbed in parallel doing the initial concentration which feed a third membrane doing the second concentration.

    Sap to 20 Brix in one pass would be quite difficult to achieve without creating some serious problems.

    Three thoughts....
    1. Circulate the concentrate back to your sap tank until the concentration in the tank reaches about 5-6 Brix, then tighten the RO down to 20 Brix and send it to the bulk tank.
    2. Do as Ken suggests and RO into the bulk tank first, then run it through a second pass back to the bulk tank until it gets to 20 Brix. The advantage with this approach is the concentrate will stay colder.
    3. Get a 3-post RO (2 parallel posts into a third post) to do single-pass to 20 Brix.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    Garrettsville,Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by drtimperkins View Post

    sap to 20 brix in one pass would be quite difficult to achieve without creating some serious problems.

    cdl and lapierre can get 2-22% with 2 membranes. We have several of both brands around usdoing it everyday, its all about the pumps
    Fred Ahrens
    330-206-1606
    Richards Maple Products
    Ohio CDL sales rep

    dont take life too serious, nobody gets out alive anyways

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Center, Underhill Ctr, VT
    Posts
    6,074

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fred View Post
    cdl and lapierre can get 2-22% with 2 membranes. We have several of both brands around usdoing it everyday, its all about the pumps
    Yes, this is possible with some of the newer machines.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

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