Got a call from my friendly FDA agent, I'm from the Government and here to help, sure

[buckeye gold]

Well a few years ago when all this registration crap was being debated we were all told we had to register if we made syrup, period. If you were small or hobby they'd probably never bother you. Yeah, I'm gullible, but not that gullible. Then we were told hobby or small producers who didn't wholesale were not required to register. So I registered then unregistered and thought, "ok I don't have to worry about them bothering me".

Yesterday, the phone rang and a guy asked my name and if I produced Maple syrup. He identified himself as a FDA agent and had some questions and would be scheduling an inspection. Remember I canceled my registration 2 years ago. Turns out they still have your name and address. He was very nice and considerate. He asked me a series of questions about how I sold my syrup, what percentage went where and how much I made. After about a half hour on the phone he said he would not be scheduling an inspection, because I did not need to be a registered facility. Here are the reasons he gave me that made him determine that. I do not sell out of state and I do not sell bulk or wholesale. I told him I had heard that if less then 50% of total sells were wholesale then a producer didn't need to be registered and he replied generally yes. However, if you sell across state lines you need to register. So in the end he said they were in the process of determining who operated facilities that need registered and who doesn't. He said they in fact were eliminating a lot of producers as exempt. My guess is if you wholesale a lot (even less then half, but a large volume) and you sell across state lines they want you registered and they will be coming to see you.

I thought I'd share this, since there has been a lot of discussions on registration

[western mainer]

So are you saying that if I ship a bottle of syrup across state lines to a person I have to register?
Brian

[buckeye gold]

So are you saying that if I ship a bottle of syrup across state lines to a person I have to register?
Brian

If your selling it I guess so. I did tell him I sent syrup out of state to friends and family as gifts and he said that doesn't count, I can do that. I think if you have a web site or advertise out of state definately yes, but an incidental bottle here and there I think they'd not be too concerned. By the letter of the law though even one bottle is "out of state sales". Maybe, If you send someone a gift and they send you back a cash gift youre ok (not being serious ) LOL.

[upsmapleman]

I think if you cross state lines to wholesale you would need to be registered. If you have a web site and sell to someone in another state I don't think so. 1st you are selling retail. 2nd you are not leaving the state, you are selling it at your location. If that was the case you would need to ask everyone who came into your store if they are from out of state because you would be selling to someone out of state. Again I think all these regulations are written so different people can read into them what they want. If you stop and think about it every bottle of syrup you package and sell has your name and address so they can find you easily. If you sell bulk and someone else packages it getting back to the producer is harder.

[buckeye gold]

upsmapleman. That is where we need more definition. What is considered the Point of Sales? When you order anything on line state sales tax applies for your location, so the point of sale is the state the order originates from for taxes. I'm guessing that is the same for Maple syrup. Where the purchase originates from is the point of sale and in that scenario someone buying from a web site in another state is out of state sales. The agents question to me was do you sell and ship any out of state? I assume that meant any sale where the person wasn't residing in your state when purchasing. I really don't know which way is right. If I had thought about it I would have asked. I certainly am not calling him back, talking to the FDA once is all I need. He did say it was ok to ship gifts out of state.

[upsmapleman]

I had a wholesale customer who fell on hard times and didn't pay for 6, 5 gallon buckets of syrup I had delivered to their store 4 hours away. After some time and unable to get my money I went to the local court house to file a claim. They said point of sale was a issue which in my case could be looked at either way. They said as long as they had contacted me and ordered the syrup my place would be point of sale. If I had gone to there place and convinced them to buy syrup (traveling salesman) the point of sale would of been there.They also said another district may veiw it different. As it turned out when faced with the possibility of going to court they paid up. As I see it every order of maple syrup going out of state is a gift.

[buckeye gold]

That's pretty good information UPSmapleman. Certainly could be used as precedent. That's what is bad about many of these regulations, they are vague. The sad part is you may have to spend money on lawyers to defend your position. I do so little, that I sell everything local and what does go out of state I just give away, if they return me a gift, fine that is their choice. I have never asked payment from out of state people, all my out of state shipping is to friends or family and nothing is expected.

[OneLegJohn]

The ODA has been nothing but helpful. They want business to succeed. If you have some humility and wok with them - they will help you. Tim has been great to work with. In fact, I would encourage more Ohio sugarhouses to work with ODA on training and helping new hires. Maple syrup is such a safe produce and a fairly easy product to train new ODA team members.

[Louie]

When you register with the FDA they require you to get a DUNNS number. That is from Dun and Bradstreet, a private company. When you do they will fill your email with requests to update financial info and try to sell you products. You can try the unsubscribe all you want and it will do nothing. Then the telemarketers start calling and their excuse is that you registered with Dun and Bradstreet. Don't know anyone can look you up or your name was sold. How can the government require you to sign up with a private company?

[buckeye gold]

Is that something new louie? I didn't have one when I was registered and I never heard anyone else say that.