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Thread: Shutting down for the night

  1. #1
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    Default Shutting down for the night

    So just curious what people do when they shut down for the night. More specifically we are now boiling concentrate and don't want to waste any. Should we boil right to the fine edge and chase with permeate? Or dump a couple of gallons on the ground? I just don't want sap to spoil in the back pan if we flood it at the end of the night as it's not boiled hard.
    Leader 2x6 Raised flue with preheater and hood. Patriot pans
    Leader Clear 5 bank filter press
    Memprotec 350H RO
    450ish taps

  2. #2
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    Williston, VT
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTnewguy View Post
    So just curious what people do when they shut down for the night. More specifically we are now boiling concentrate and don't want to waste any. Should we boil right to the fine edge and chase with permeate? Or dump a couple of gallons on the ground? I just don't want sap to spoil in the back pan if we flood it at the end of the night as it's not boiled hard.
    Chase with RO rinse (prior to your RO wash). At the start of your prewash rinse, the rinse water is very sweet. Once you've got enough in your head tank then let your rig cool down with the chaser and continue with a normal rinse/wash/rinse process on your RO.

    Ken
    Last edited by TapTapTap; 04-14-2021 at 04:57 AM.
    Ken & Sherry
    Williston, VT

    2017 - 13 gallons on 65 taps (12 buckets, rest 3/16), 2x4 flat bottom, modified cargo box sugarhouse
    2018 - 90 gallons on 418 taps (gravity lines), Leader 30"x10' Vortex Arch & Max Raised Flue with Rev Syrup Pan, New Sugarhouse
    2019 - Burned through alot more money: heated kitchen, 2x2,000 and 375 gal ss sap tanks, CDL1200 RO, Bauch Vac Pump, More taps, etc., etc., etc.
    https://www.facebook.com/pumpkinhillmaple/

  3. #3
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    Default

    I try to make sure there is more than enough concentrate in the head tank when the RO is done for the day to flood the pans. How much you need will depend on your evaporator and how you shut down. When the head tank is down to my mark I fire one more time and open a valve to empty the head tank into the flu pan. Once the flu pan is boiling again I drain a gallon or so out of the float box (I have a drop flu) and pour that into the syrup pan. I have AOF and have found that if I shut the fan off once everything is up to temp. the pans will evaporate more than leaving the fan on until the coals are almost gone. You will need to experiment to find your level that you need to have enough to flood the pans.
    Smoky Lake 2x6 dropflu pans and hoods on homemade arch
    Smoky Lake 6 gallon water jacked bottler
    Concentric Exhaust
    250 Deer Run RO
    325 taps

  4. #4
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    New Hartford, N.Y.
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    I boil/fire normally right through the end of the concentrate and a little beyond. The second the head tank empties, I put a little straight water in the tank. This does two things. It flushes the preheater and it allows the last of the concentrate to get boiled for a bit before the no firing/cooldown stage.

    Steve
    2014 Upgrades!: 24x40 sugarhouse & 30"x10' Lapierre welded pans, wood fired w/ forced draft, homemade hood & preheater
    400 taps- half on gravity 5/16, half on gravity 3/16
    Airablo R.O. machine - in the house basement!
    Ford F-350 4x4 sap gatherer
    An assortment of barrels, cage tanks & bulk tanks- with one operational for cooling/holding concentrate
    And a few puzzled neighbors...

    http://s606.photobucket.com/albums/t...uckethead1920/

  5. #5
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    Apr 2016
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    Rutland, Vermont
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    Thank you for all of the responses. Usually our RO is done by the time we finish boiling. I do think that we will chase with a little permeate to try not to waste concentrate. It adds up after a while.
    Leader 2x6 Raised flue with preheater and hood. Patriot pans
    Leader Clear 5 bank filter press
    Memprotec 350H RO
    450ish taps

  6. #6
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    Jan 2017
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    Williston, VT
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTnewguy View Post
    Thank you for all of the responses. Usually our RO is done by the time we finish boiling. I do think that we will chase with a little permeate to try not to waste concentrate. It adds up after a while.
    I didn't follow your statement about RO being done. I assume you mean done the wash by the end of your boil? Are you flushing your initial rinse back into the head tank (about 5 minutes)?

    Permeate is also a good rinse for the head tank and any plumbing down to the flue pan.
    Ken & Sherry
    Williston, VT

    2017 - 13 gallons on 65 taps (12 buckets, rest 3/16), 2x4 flat bottom, modified cargo box sugarhouse
    2018 - 90 gallons on 418 taps (gravity lines), Leader 30"x10' Vortex Arch & Max Raised Flue with Rev Syrup Pan, New Sugarhouse
    2019 - Burned through alot more money: heated kitchen, 2x2,000 and 375 gal ss sap tanks, CDL1200 RO, Bauch Vac Pump, More taps, etc., etc., etc.
    https://www.facebook.com/pumpkinhillmaple/

  7. #7
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    Apr 2016
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    Rutland, Vermont
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    I usually have the rinse,wash, and final rinse done before we finish boiling. I do try to let the first rinse of the RO run in the head tank for a minute or two. The couple of times I checked it the sugar was gone pretty quick. I just don't want to forget about pulling that hose out of the head tank and diluting the sweet.
    Leader 2x6 Raised flue with preheater and hood. Patriot pans
    Leader Clear 5 bank filter press
    Memprotec 350H RO
    450ish taps

  8. #8
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    Jan 2006
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    Oneida NY
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    My proceedure the last 5 years or so has been to RO all sap and send it to the head tank. I have a site tube for the level in my head tank. The important line for my rig is at 18 gal. (I have a line at 5 gal, 12 gal and 18. Above that I have lines at "about 50 gal , 100 gal and stop filling which is at 145 gal.) When I get to 18 gal, I add wood for the last time. at about 12 gal I send the rest into the raised flue pan. (my syrup pan is 3x3, the flue pan is 3x5). Then as soon as the flue pan is again boiling hard, and the head tank is empty (the RO was cleaned a while before that 18 gal mark) I drain the pre-heater into the raised flue float box. Then a bout 2-3 minutes later, I draw off 2 pots of concentrate from the raised flue float box, and it immediately fills back in from the flue pan. Each pot (about 2-2.5 gal) gets dumped into the flue pan. By the time I've done that 2x the contents of the float box has been boiled well enough that it's safe to finish the shut down. I then shut off my auto defoamer dripper, and remove the flue pan float and cover the box. (I have a cover for everything, made out of SS.) I then close the valve feeding the syrup mpan, if the nlevel is under 1", I add some from the flue pan, I like to leave the syrup pan with 1.5" in it at shut down, even though I boil at 1". I then cover the 2 float boxes on the syrup pan, at any given time one is a float box the other is the draw off box. I then check how many coals are still going in the firebox, if necessary I use a fireplace rake to level the coals. At the end, maybe 15 minutes before all coals are burned out, I shut off my AUF/AOF blower, cover the syrup pan, close the cupoloa doors, shut the ball valve on the draw off auto draw. If I was also bottling I may finish that, depends on the time and how tired I am coupled with how much sap I expect the next day. I then do things like drain my tankless water heater, change the filter papers, Check the syrup pan for niter and some other tasks. If it needs to be cleaned I pump any syrup in my draw off tank over to my finisher. Then when all coals are burned out I drain the syrup pan into my draw off tank, and pump 5-6 gal of permeate into it and let set over night. Usually by morning the niter is all loose and I drain the syrup pan, rinse with hot permeate (my tankless water heater), then I pump the contents of the draw tank, that was drained from the syrup pan back into the syrup pan. Times when the permeate didn't do a complete job, I use 1 gal white vinegar, heat the bottom of the syrup pan using a weed burner torch to about 100-110F. In about 20-30 minutes it's clean, and I do the drain and complete rinse, then pump the contents of the draw off tank back into the syrup pan. and I'm ready to resume boiling, all of my sap flows directly to the sugarhouse.
    Ifr my vacuum is at 25" or less, I go fix leaks, if at 26-27" I set up the RO and start all over again.
    Back when I had 2 remote leases I then drove to collect sap and haul it back, fixing leaks if needed then hauling the sap back to the sugarhouse.
    Last edited by maple flats; 04-14-2021 at 08:25 PM.
    Dave Klish about 400 taps, down from much more. Retired from collecting and boiling in 2021. Mostly because of a bad hip.
    2012 Mahindra 36 HP 4x4/ loader/cab/heat/AC:-)
    3x8 raised flue evaporator
    250 GPH converted to electric, RO by Ray Gingerich
    6.32 KW solar system, 1.48KW is battery backed up, all net metered
    website: www.cnymaple.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Granville, PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTnewguy View Post
    So just curious what people do when they shut down for the night.
    Funny that you asked this, this same topic was a conversation at our local maple producers association this past Monday. Every person there gave a different method of shutting down.

    Because we now use a chilling bulk tank, I am only boiling once a week. That is requiring me to treat the concentrate differently. I am in the process of putting a system together where when my head tank is empty of concentrate, I will fill it with permiate. Once 50 gallon of permiate is in the tank, I will drain the concentrate from the flue pan (while it is filling with permiate) and turn a three way valve to feed the front pan float box with this concentrate and boil out the concentrate in the front pan.

    I have tried to "chase or push the sweet" and that was a long process in my evaporator.
    Matt,
    Minehart Gap Maple

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