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Thread: raised flue pan self draining

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Rumney NH
    Posts
    125

    Default raised flue pan self draining

    Hey Traders, so I purchased a new raised flue pan with both floats boxes. on the syrup pan side after I'm done boiling the float slowly riases and drains my flue pan on the floor. do others have this problem? what am I missing? thought about two butterfly valves, but puts the float box kinda in the way and the butterfly valves are in tight spots too. i can't be the only one .what have you guys done to stop this?
    2017 140 taps 30x8 12x16 shack 28.5 gal
    2018 158 taps 30x8 12x16 shack with 8x8 kitchen 44 gal
    2019 223 taps 30x8 12x16 shack with 8x8 kitchen 36 gal
    2020 226 taps 30x8 12x16 shack with 8x8 kitchen 250 waterloo ro 63 gal
    2021 230 taps 30x8 12x16 shack with 8x8 kitchen 250 waterloo ro 37 gal
    2022 230 taps 30x8 12x16 shack with 8x8 kitchen 250 waterloo ro 55 gal
    2023 235 taps 30x8 12x16 waterloo ro

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Chatham NH
    Posts
    1,308

    Default

    Sounds like you have a bad gasket possibly on your float valve?
    Nate Hutchins
    Nate & Kate's Maple
    2022 1000 taps?
    3x10 Intensofire
    20x36 sugarhouse
    CDL 600gph RO
    A wife and 2 kids.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Rumney NH
    Posts
    125

    Default

    this has happened twice and not back to back. will check the gasket while cleaning the evaporator later. did not think of that as it is brand new, well 6 boils in it.
    2017 140 taps 30x8 12x16 shack 28.5 gal
    2018 158 taps 30x8 12x16 shack with 8x8 kitchen 44 gal
    2019 223 taps 30x8 12x16 shack with 8x8 kitchen 36 gal
    2020 226 taps 30x8 12x16 shack with 8x8 kitchen 250 waterloo ro 63 gal
    2021 230 taps 30x8 12x16 shack with 8x8 kitchen 250 waterloo ro 37 gal
    2022 230 taps 30x8 12x16 shack with 8x8 kitchen 250 waterloo ro 55 gal
    2023 235 taps 30x8 12x16 waterloo ro

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    North Grenville, Ontario
    Posts
    969

    Default

    I had a similar problem on my float box when I first got it.
    Found 2 problems.
    1. The vent tube on the float was too short and was somehow getting condensate in it thus making the float not float properly. I threaded the end of it and put a cap on it.
    2. The gasket wasn’t sealing properly. Tried flipping it around. That worked kind of. But what I ended up doing was cutting a piece of stainless the size of the gasket and putting it behind it like a spacer. This moved the gasket out 1/4” and havnt had a problem since.
    600 taps on vacuum
    Lapierre mechanical Releaser
    CDL electric releaser
    2.5 x 10 CDL Venturi ( new for the 2024 season )
    Home made modulating auto draw off
    Homemade RO 2 x 4" membranes
    CDL 16 x 16 bottler
    Wesfab 7" filter press
    Delaval 73 vacuum pumps

    12 hives of bees

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Lake County Ohio
    Posts
    1,628

    Default

    I have a Leader Patriot raised flue pan with a butterfly valve at the syrup pan float box. The floats work great when boiling, but due to the head pressure in the head tank and flue pan they can have a hard time being 100% and I've learned to work around that...

    After flooding and diluting the front pan from 1" to 6" and losing the time and wood to start over, I now close all valves when I shut down.
    I would try to find a sure-fire way to isolate the flue pan with either a plug or valve of some kind.
    John Allin

    14x18 Hemlock Timber Frame Sugar House 2009
    Leader 2x6 w/Patriot Raised Flue Pan 2009
    Leader Steam Hood 2014 - Clear Filter Press 2015
    Leader Revolution Pan and SS Pre-Heater 2016
    CDL Hobby RO & Air Tech L25 Hi Vac Pump 2019
    06' Gator HPX to collect wood & sap
    14' Ski-Doo Tundra for winter work in the woods
    Great Family 3 grown kids+spouses and 7 grand kids who like the woods
    7th Gen Born in Canada - Raised in Chardon Ohio - Maple Capital of the World..<grin>.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Oakville, ON
    Posts
    144

    Default

    I've had the float valve between the evaporating pan and finishing pan get stuck slightly open several times, usually after I've closed down for the night and I come in the next morning to find the finishing pan flooded. Most irritating! I now close the manual valve between the two pans. Used to worry that the latent heat in the arch might burn the finishing pan but experience has shown it does not and usually means i have a finishing pan close to syrup when i start the next day. Nearest i can determine it's small bits of nitre getting stuck in the float valve and holding it open just a fraction of an inch.
    2023 - 130 taps, 90L from 4,000L as of mid March
    2021 - 84 taps, 50L from 2100L
    2020 - 100 taps on buckets, 21L syrup from 2700L so far (FEB 26-Mar 13) and then the pandemic hit! End of our season!
    2019 - 62 taps on buckets, 95L syrop from 3215L sap
    2018 - 62 taps, collecting by hand, 90L syrop from 3200L sap
    2017 - Lapierre Waterloo Small mini pro with 40 taps
    2014 - 2016 40 taps making one or two batches on a 2x6 flat pan over an open arch as it would have been done in 1900

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Rumney NH
    Posts
    125

    Default

    so I ended up putting two butterfly valves in. one on the flue pan and one on the cross-flow pan. the gasket between pans is made of a soft foam. never saw one like it?
    2017 140 taps 30x8 12x16 shack 28.5 gal
    2018 158 taps 30x8 12x16 shack with 8x8 kitchen 44 gal
    2019 223 taps 30x8 12x16 shack with 8x8 kitchen 36 gal
    2020 226 taps 30x8 12x16 shack with 8x8 kitchen 250 waterloo ro 63 gal
    2021 230 taps 30x8 12x16 shack with 8x8 kitchen 250 waterloo ro 37 gal
    2022 230 taps 30x8 12x16 shack with 8x8 kitchen 250 waterloo ro 55 gal
    2023 235 taps 30x8 12x16 waterloo ro

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oneida NY
    Posts
    11,544

    Default

    I also had that issue, not during a boil, but overnight. The remedy was to just close the ball valve between the raised flue pan and the syrup pan. Fortunately mine never went on the floor, I had my syrup pan made 4" taller than a typical syrup pan (Also had 4" taller flue pan too). Before I started closing the ball valves (I have two, same side reversible) I did get greeted with a flooded syrup pan a few times, but it was about 5" down from the top. I didn't pump the excess back into the flue pan, I just opened the feed line to the flue pan, once the flue pan was at 1/4" above the flues I lit the fire. It took a while to get down to 1" in the syrup pan, but it worked. I'm not saying this is the best way, it's just how I did it. I could have rather easily pumped it back into the flue pan, I just didn't.
    Dave Klish, I recently ordered a 2x6 wood fired evaporator from A&A Sheet Metal which I will be converting to oil fired
    Now have solar, 2x6 finish pan, 5 bank 7x7 filter press, large water jacketed bottler, and tankless water heater.
    Recently bought another Gingerich RO, this one was a 125, but a second membrane was added thus is a 250, like I had.
    After running a 2x3, a 2x6, 3x8 tapping from 79 taps up to 1320 all woodfired, now I'm going to a 2x6 oil fired and a 200-425 taps.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Center, Underhill Ctr, VT
    Posts
    6,390

    Default

    A good proportion (many or even most) float valves will leak a little....whether clean or especially when covered in niter or splooge....it's just the way they are. Left that way overnight it can pass a lot of liquid. Best not to rely on them to keep the sap/sweet where you want it. If you want the liquid to stay where it is...a ball valve is the way to go.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Northeast Vermont
    Posts
    648

    Default

    could you get a few pan pugs for your rig? i put on in the hole where the hot sap enters the syrup pan, upon shutting down.
    Awfully thankful for an understanding wife!

    “The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary.”
    - Vincent “Vince” Lombardi

    Good luck to all!

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