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Thread: RO advice

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Ontario
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    15

    Default RO advice

    Next year I'm looking to go to 100-150 taps. I only have 5-6 hours a day that I can boil unfortunately. My 2x4 evaporator will boil 8-10gph. I'd like to figure out what size ro to build that would put out 8ish% concentrate at around the same rate as the evaporator can boil off. I know a 4x40 would easily do it but I think i would be lacking permeate to flush a membrane of that size. I currently have a 2x400 gpd ro with an aquatech. I do have 4 400gpd membranes and housings but only run two at a time as the pump really can't feed 4 of them imo. Suggestions?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Murrysville, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    476

    Default

    I just went to 100 taps on 3/16 vacuum and built an RO using 5 of the 400 gpd membranes in 3012 housings using a coronwater typ-8900 pump. I loved it. Worked awesome.
    https://youtu.be/9_Eq_sq6Tp0
    I previously had the aquatec 8852 with 3 of those membranes. This doubled the speed and I was taking it from 1.25 - 1.5% to 7.5% or 8% in a single pass. Averaged 140 gallons of sap daily to run thru this and boil on a 20 x 42 rig. In future I might replace the 400 gpd membranes when they eventually go bad with 600 gpd ones that fit the 3012 housings to speed it up more.

    Also, aquatec just started making a higher flow pump (5300 series). Specs look good but its not continuous duty (major negative). Also, aquatec doesn't sell direct to consumers and none of their distributors had it. Still can't find a place to buy it.

    http://www.aquatec.com/documents/dow...6.00%20LPM.pdf

    Lastly, you could also add another pump in a parallel set up to double flow rate at the same pressure. You could do that with another aquatec or 2 of the coronwater pumps. Although I haven't seen this used in DIY RO units, it is a common approach to increasing flow rate at the same pressure. This is different than a low pressure feed pump in series with a high pressure pump on bigger RO units. It is best to use identical pumps in a parallel set up and you will most likely need to use larger tubing on the intake and throughout the system (only 1/4" on final concentrate exit and 1/2" for intake/feed)

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.eng...ial-d_636.html
    Last edited by DRoseum; 04-05-2021 at 06:58 PM.
    D. Roseum
    www.roseummaple.com
    ~100 taps on 3/16 custom temp controlled vacuum; shurflo vacuum #2; custom nat gas evap with auto-drawoff and tank level gas shut-off controller; homemade RO #1; homemade RO #2; SL SS filter press
    2021: 27.1 gallons
    2022: 35 gallons

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Greenwood, Me
    Posts
    974

    Default

    I have two new 400 GPD membranes. What is the flushing procedure for new membranes out of the box? I do not have permeate but did buy a carbon filter so I can use my tapwater.
    2024 - New Maine resident, 12X12 sugar shack under construction
    2019 - New 12X12 boiling pavilion
    2018 - New Mason 2X3 Hobby XL and homemade RO

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Murrysville, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    476

    Default

    Flush new carbon block filter first for 15 mins and then hook up to membranes and flush with no back pressure for 1 -2 hrs.
    D. Roseum
    www.roseummaple.com
    ~100 taps on 3/16 custom temp controlled vacuum; shurflo vacuum #2; custom nat gas evap with auto-drawoff and tank level gas shut-off controller; homemade RO #1; homemade RO #2; SL SS filter press
    2021: 27.1 gallons
    2022: 35 gallons

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Center, Underhill Ctr, VT
    Posts
    6,391

    Default

    Flush new carbon block filter first for 15 mins and then hook up to membranes and flush with no back pressure for 1 -2 hrs.
    A standard sediment filter is more appropriate. Use of a carbon filter with sap or syrup is actually illegal.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Murrysville, Pennsylvania
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    476

    Default

    I should have been more specific... this is for initial flushing of new membranes with CITY water which contains chlorine that needs to be removed to prevent membrane damage. The carbon block filter is only used in this stage and then removed and replaced with a regular sediment filter when actually processing sap.

    Is that illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrTimPerkins View Post
    A standard sediment filter is more appropriate. Use of a carbon filter with sap or syrup is actually illegal.
    Last edited by DRoseum; 01-22-2023 at 12:46 PM.
    D. Roseum
    www.roseummaple.com
    ~100 taps on 3/16 custom temp controlled vacuum; shurflo vacuum #2; custom nat gas evap with auto-drawoff and tank level gas shut-off controller; homemade RO #1; homemade RO #2; SL SS filter press
    2021: 27.1 gallons
    2022: 35 gallons

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Greenwood, Me
    Posts
    974

    Default

    my apologies, I should have been clearer...I will fill a tank with tap water run thru a carbon block filter, then run THAT thru the membranes.
    2024 - New Maine resident, 12X12 sugar shack under construction
    2019 - New 12X12 boiling pavilion
    2018 - New Mason 2X3 Hobby XL and homemade RO

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Greenwood, Me
    Posts
    974

    Default

    Well, sadly, after performing very well running de-chlorinated city water thru the RO for a few hours to flush my new membranes, my brand new Coronwater pump didn't even turn on when I plugged it in to start processing my sap. I've sent a message to the seller but I do not expect any satisfaction (china, right?). I will switch back to the aquatec and hope that has enough oomph to get thru the membranes.
    2024 - New Maine resident, 12X12 sugar shack under construction
    2019 - New 12X12 boiling pavilion
    2018 - New Mason 2X3 Hobby XL and homemade RO

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    West Falls, NY
    Posts
    264

    Default

    Any chance it’s the power supply? (I ask optimistically…?)
    Sugaring since 2000.
    2022 - 113 taps on tubing and gravity. Homemade evaporator and RO.
    2023 - 120 taps on 5/16 and gravity added a float to the pan an built a new 5x400gpd RO

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Wardensville, Wv
    Posts
    322

    Default

    easy way to check, throw a multimeter on it and see what the voltage reads. I'm not familiar with aquatec or similar pumps, do they have overload protection, like a built in breaker you can reset?
    2023 - 38 Gallons - RO broke, Buckets didn't run, rebuilt vacuum pump mid-season, still made good syrup!
    2022 - 52 Gallons - DIY RO, 50% less fuel, no late nights in the shack!
    2021 - 48 Gallons - new pans, new arch, lots of new taps and tubing
    2020 - 32 Gallons
    2019 - 27 Gallons

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