+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 37

Thread: Holding concentrate in a working bulk tank

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Southcentral Pennsylvania
    Posts
    168

    Default Holding concentrate in a working bulk tank

    We are looking at installing a working bulk tank for next season. We will be concentrating to 15% - 16%. Does anyone know how cold we can go at that brix, before it will feeeze? I know the places that do high concentrate can go into the upper 20's.
    8200 on vacuum, 4x12 oil fired w/ steamaway
    One very wonderful wife
    HC4 Leader RO with expansion kit
    4 little sugarmakers in training aging between 12 and 10 years old
    One nutty household

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oneida NY
    Posts
    11,122

    Default

    Check with Dr Tim, he gave that answer or formula before.
    Dave Klish about 400 taps, down from much more. Retired from collecting and boiling in 2021. Mostly because of a bad hip.
    2012 Mahindra 36 HP 4x4/ loader/cab/heat/AC:-)
    3x8 raised flue evaporator
    250 GPH converted to electric, RO by Ray Gingerich
    6.32 KW solar system, 1.48KW is battery backed up, all net metered
    website: www.cnymaple.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Center, Underhill Ctr, VT
    Posts
    5,687

    Default

    Here you go. Approach the setpoint slowly. Thermometers and refrigeration can vary by a few degrees. Lower the temperature gradually. If slush starts to form, back off a little. An ice-cube in your bulk tank can ruin your day (or three).

    freezepointsugar.JPG
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Southcentral Pennsylvania
    Posts
    168

    Default

    Thank you, Dr. Perkins
    8200 on vacuum, 4x12 oil fired w/ steamaway
    One very wonderful wife
    HC4 Leader RO with expansion kit
    4 little sugarmakers in training aging between 12 and 10 years old
    One nutty household

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Wellsboro Pa
    Posts
    284

    Default

    My question is do you need to take it down to just above freezing or can you take it to say 35 degrees and hold it.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Center, Underhill Ctr, VT
    Posts
    5,687

    Default

    You can do whatever you like, but the colder you can keep it the longer it will store.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    New Hartford, N.Y.
    Posts
    2,040

    Default

    Dr. Tim,

    Any suggestions on what temperature any given percentage of concentrate should be stored at? Did you experiment any with different percentages and temps. when you got your tank? A lot of RO's out there with different performance levels so there might be a "no hotter than" temperature folks could aim for with their refrigeration set ups.

    Thanks.

    Steve
    2014 Upgrades!: 24x40 sugarhouse & 30"x10' Lapierre welded pans, wood fired w/ forced draft, homemade hood & preheater
    400 taps- half on gravity 5/16, half on gravity 3/16
    Airablo R.O. machine - in the house basement!
    Ford F-350 4x4 sap gatherer
    An assortment of barrels, cage tanks & bulk tanks- with one operational for cooling/holding concentrate
    And a few puzzled neighbors...

    http://s606.photobucket.com/albums/t...uckethead1920/

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Center, Underhill Ctr, VT
    Posts
    5,687

    Default

    Hey Steve ... Not sure exactly what you're looking for, but sap/concentrate spoilage is a function of time, temperature, sugar concentration and initial microbial load. We have done studies on it, with the following general results:

    - warm sap spoils faster than cold sap
    - higher sap sugar spoils faster than lower sap sugar
    - sap spoils more the longer it is left out
    - if sap has a lot of microbes to start with, spoilage will be faster

    The colder it is kept, the longer it will last, but there is no single setpoint that we can say after this it is bad. Somewhat depends upon the types of microbes in the sap and aeration to some degree as well. Best way is to think of it as milk....how long would you leave it out at a given temperature and still drink it? An hour at room temp...probably OK. A day at room temp....probably not.

    The issue this week is likely to be sap souring in the lines even before it reaches the sugarhouse. We are going to segregate our sap into different tanks and do test boils to see how it is....if it gets bad, we'll dump it until after a good freeze and hope that a return to cold weather will flush out the lines.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    upstate N.Y.
    Posts
    189

    Default

    "Somewhat depends upon the types of microbes in the sap and aeration to some degree as well. "

    Is aeration a good thing or bad thing? Does UVM run the agitator in the tank continuous, some or not at all?
    2.5X10 HE
    600 RO
    Vac

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    New Hartford, N.Y.
    Posts
    2,040

    Default

    Dr. Tim,

    I had not seen the chart you provided before with the freezing points of concentration. So I was wondering if there was a "not good enough" temp. for concentrates. Or put another way, for instance, 8-10% sap could be held safely at average refrigerator temps. but high concentration has to be held at far below 32 degrees. And that got me to thinking about my set up.
    For the record and for comparison, I hold 10-12% concentrate at 34 degrees, which is the lowest setting on my tank. Not sure how or if I could get it to go lower, but I have had great results with this tank at these levels.

    Steve
    2014 Upgrades!: 24x40 sugarhouse & 30"x10' Lapierre welded pans, wood fired w/ forced draft, homemade hood & preheater
    400 taps- half on gravity 5/16, half on gravity 3/16
    Airablo R.O. machine - in the house basement!
    Ford F-350 4x4 sap gatherer
    An assortment of barrels, cage tanks & bulk tanks- with one operational for cooling/holding concentrate
    And a few puzzled neighbors...

    http://s606.photobucket.com/albums/t...uckethead1920/

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts