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Thread: Vacuum Pump Station Critique

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Carbon County, PA
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    108

    Default Vacuum Pump Station Critique

    Fellas.

    This is my second year on tubing and a diaphragm pump. Last year I was t happy with thawing lines so I decided to revamp my pumping station.

    Today is the first day tubing the new setup and I’m only pulling 10-15 in vacuum. At times it seems it locks up with sap. Could it be my discharge? The discharge is 1/2” pvc and it rises about 6 feet right after exiting the box then out to my sap tank. I have a 3/16 recirculating line with needle valve. The needle valve is barely cracked open. No leaks from what I can tell. I did pull some goop through the lines and had to clean my screen several times.

    D12354F1-AEEE-4B6D-91EF-4A3169F03D7A.jpg

    Let me know what you think?
    2018 - 8 Taps on Buckets - homemade 2x2 pan and wood arch - 1.25 gallons
    2019 - 30 Taps on Buckets - new Sugarhouse , 2x4 divides pan and homebuilt
    evaporator! - 3.5 gallons
    2020 - planning 50 Taps on 3/16 tubing with shurflo vacuum

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Rutland, Vermont
    Posts
    326

    Default

    I'd check for leaks and make sure the reciric line is open enough for a good amount of liquid.
    CDL 2.5*8 Venturi with all the bells
    Leader Clear 5 bank filter press
    Memprotec 350H RO
    600ish taps and looking for more.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    afton, ny
    Posts
    56

    Default

    I'm running a Shurflo 4008, I have 53 taps divided into three 3/16" lines, I also have a 3/16" recirc line with needle valve. The first line runs down hill to the pump, The second line line is level or maybe 10' below the pump, And the third line is aprox 15' below the pump. I'm making 23" Hg with the recic line aprox 25%

    After running all night I had 26" Hg with the recirc line aprox 25%
    Last edited by tombaisley; 02-25-2021 at 06:21 AM.
    2018 25 taps, two turkey fryers, 4 gallons
    2019 75 taps, Mason 2'x4, XL, 10'x12' shack
    2020 150 Taps Mason 2x4XL RO15 Bucket. no sugar%
    2021 250ish Taps Mason 2x4 XL RO 20 bucket , going to be busy, 40 gallons made
    2022 400ish taps 2x4 Smokey Lake Drop Flue single post 4x40 RO

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/vZj2hHkXpKSBJqJFA

    https://www.facebook.com/kelseybrook...FIVmIotuulHl4W

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Carbon County, PA
    Posts
    108

    Default

    Had some more time to monitor it today. It hovers around 12” and the clear tube starts to fill. I “burb” it before the intake of the pump and it’ll run remove the sap then sap flows. After a couple of minutes it will stop moving again and “stalls”

    Sap sits in line after pump and doesn’t move. Could it be my diaphragm? The pump is a 3.0 gpm pump. Would I be better off upgrading to a shurflo?
    2018 - 8 Taps on Buckets - homemade 2x2 pan and wood arch - 1.25 gallons
    2019 - 30 Taps on Buckets - new Sugarhouse , 2x4 divides pan and homebuilt
    evaporator! - 3.5 gallons
    2020 - planning 50 Taps on 3/16 tubing with shurflo vacuum

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Mapleton Twp, SW Ontario
    Posts
    361

    Default

    Sounds to me like you're maybe just running the pump a little dry... I know mine sort of pulsates up and down.... When the trees are flowing really good, the pump stays wet and vacuum stays high... but when the trees slow down, the pump will pulsate when it gets gulps of liquid and then dries out.... back and forth...
    What happens when you open up the recirc line? I'd pinch off your incoming sap lines to rule out leaks, and see what vacuum you can achieve, while just playing around with the recirc.

    It would be nice to have a system that adjusted the amount of recirc, automatically to account for the volume of incoming sap... but I haven't figured that one out yet.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Carbon County, PA
    Posts
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    I’ve tried recirc open and closed and it seems as if It makes little difference. I noticed that when it’s “stalled” some air bubbles flow in reverse. Then the pump seems to bare down and the sap shoots back in and vacuum rises swiftly. I’ll try to post a video shortly.
    2018 - 8 Taps on Buckets - homemade 2x2 pan and wood arch - 1.25 gallons
    2019 - 30 Taps on Buckets - new Sugarhouse , 2x4 divides pan and homebuilt
    evaporator! - 3.5 gallons
    2020 - planning 50 Taps on 3/16 tubing with shurflo vacuum

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Rutland, Vermont
    Posts
    326

    Default

    Add more liquid via the recirc line to rule out the pump. Last year when my pump started acting up for no reason it took searching every bit of line for a small squirrel chew that made the whole system not work.
    CDL 2.5*8 Venturi with all the bells
    Leader Clear 5 bank filter press
    Memprotec 350H RO
    600ish taps and looking for more.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Carbon County, PA
    Posts
    108

    Default

    Ok. No video tonight. Now I just checked it via Blink (yes.. I have a blink camera on it!) and I’m up to 20” of vacuum and slow flow.

    Now I’m wondering if my trees aren’t flowing quite yet like they should.

    I will work with the recirc though to see.
    2018 - 8 Taps on Buckets - homemade 2x2 pan and wood arch - 1.25 gallons
    2019 - 30 Taps on Buckets - new Sugarhouse , 2x4 divides pan and homebuilt
    evaporator! - 3.5 gallons
    2020 - planning 50 Taps on 3/16 tubing with shurflo vacuum

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Mapleton Twp, SW Ontario
    Posts
    361

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HondoLane View Post
    Ok. No video tonight. Now I just checked it via Blink (yes.. I have a blink camera on it!) and I’m up to 20” of vacuum and slow flow.

    Now I’m wondering if my trees aren’t flowing quite yet like they should.

    I will work with the recirc though to see.
    your symptoms are exactly the same as mine... and I'm fairly certain, its the pump getting dry and losing its seal. When that happens, all the air pockets throughout the system under vacuum instantly expand back to atmospheric pressure, and suck back from your pump. until it seals up again and starts the cycle over... Not certain, but this is my theory.

    Just throwing out ideas, because I really haven't solved it myself either... but what about re-plumbing the recirc in "immediately" before the pump... to ensure that a steady stream from the recirc goes directly into the pump seals, rather than spending time out in the piping..

    Or maybe create a bit of a vertical rise in the pipe immediately after the pump... to hold liquid... air bubbles would rise up through it immediately and leave a supply of liquid against the pump... If the seal thinks about leaking, it would only have liquid to draw back and keep the seals wet ???

    Just brainstorming.
    Last edited by wmick; 02-26-2021 at 07:32 AM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Princeton, MA
    Posts
    495

    Default

    I had a very similar situation yesterday. 100 taps on 3/16, 5gpm pump. No recirculation line. The vacuum would sit around 12", flow would start to come in, up to 22", sap coming in good. Then eventually there was not enough flow to sustain the vacuum and it would drop back to 12". Sap would flow backwards in the lines. Cycle repeated every 10 minutes. I swapped the 5gpm pump for a 3gpm Shurflo 4008, reasoning that the smaller pump would be better at holding a steady vacuum. Bingo, after that it held 22" steady for the rest of the day. I am thinking that my trees were not flowing well yet so the larger pump did not work well with the low flow. I want to try it again later in the season when sap is running hard to see if it makes a difference.

    Dave
    Mountain Maple farm
    2022 NAMSC award winning dark amber syrup
    2023: 320 taps, 70% red maples. Mountain Maple S4 diaphragm pump controller with automated sap transfer and text messaging
    Website:
    https://www.mountainmaplefarm.com
    https://www.facebook.com/MountainMapleFarm/

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