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Thread: Off flavors/aromas, sources, and remedies

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
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    Nashville, MI
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    Bryan, I just wanted to add my 2 cents. I finish on my evaporator or maybe a little over. when the auto-draw empty's it goes into a 5 gallon plastic pail. This may be in the sugar house for a few days before I finish and bottle in my kitchen. I do use a filter press which is different than the vac. filter. Last year I used 3/4 cup DE per gallon of syrup. I don't think its your use of plastic pails causing the problem.
    2004 - 2012 2x3 flat pan 25 to 60 taps
    2012 2x3 new divided pan w/draw off 55 taps
    2018 - didn't boil surgery - bought new evaporator
    2019 new SML 2x4 raised flue high output evap. 65 taps
    made 17 gal. syrup
    2020 - only put out 53 taps - made 16.25 ga.l syrup
    2021 - Didn't work out
    2022 - 25 taps on bags / 8 taps on 3/16's line - late start

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Northern Wisconsin
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    Hi, I would be suspect of anything the sap or syrup is stored in. I would also question the length of time in storage for both. If you are using food grade d.e. there should be no issues with the filtering. It is also possible to get a batch which naturally develops a off flavor.
    3500 taps, vacuum.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    UVM Proctor Maple Research Center, Underhill Ctr, VT
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    6,390

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    Bryan...you mention that you noticed it a bit last spring. When during the season did you notice it (early, late, middle)? Was the syrup light or dark in color and flavor (the syrup flavor, not the off-flavor)? Did it affect your whole crop, or just a part of it? Did you use the filter all season, or just part of the season (and which part)?
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
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    Connecticut
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    Quote Originally Posted by bryankloos View Post
    I do use defoamer in the evap. I still get beige foam/scum that builds up on the sides of the channels at the fluid/sap line.
    I’m starting to think that maybe this is the source of funk.

    The defoamer I use was from bascom, sold as defoamer. Maybe I should switch to straight canola oil?

    I try to skim the scum with a SS spoon as I boil. Maybe I would benefit from a good skimmer?

    I’m still curious what the scum is. I need to take some photos this year, assuming it’s present.
    I know the scum of which you speak!
    I also have a ss slotted spoon to try to take off some. I used to fling it off the spoon as waste, until I realized how good it tasted! I have a feeling it is extra protein in the sap? And it does leave a small "scum line" in the evaporator too. I get it the most in the early and middle channels of the pan, not as much in the channel that is closest to syrup.
    2017 - 20ish taps on buckets, boiling outside in two baking pans
    2018 - 70+ taps, 14-buckets, 50+ on tubing, homemade arch from oil tank in my barn, 17 gal syrup
    2019 - same set up, 20 gal syrup
    2020 - less taps, short season, but RO kit was fantastic! 6 gal syrup and a maple cat!
    2021/22/23 - expanded into the neighbors yards! 50 taps on buckets and 40 taps on tubing

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    CT
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    247

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTimPerkins View Post
    Bryan...you mention that you noticed it a bit last spring. When during the season did you notice it (early, late, middle)? Was the syrup light or dark in color and flavor (the syrup flavor, not the off-flavor)? Did it affect your whole crop, or just a part of it? Did you use the filter all season, or just part of the season (and which part)?
    Good questions, of which I wish I had clear answers.

    Id say I more noticed it when I started using the vac filter, but this was probably early in the season. I'm pop open a couple bottles from early (lighter product) to later in the season (darker) to see if I can see a difference. I'll also check vac filtered vs not vac filtered to see if it follows any pattern.

    I will take better notes this season and pictures as well.
    2024 - 160 taps, Shurflo 4048. Sap Sucker 4-D. Mason 2x4 Raised Flue. 5x400 RO.
    2023 - 121 taps. Shurflo 4008. Sap Sucker 4-D. Mason 2x4 XL, 4x150 RO. 20 gallons.
    2022 - 103 taps. Shurflo 4008. Sap Sucker 4-D. Mason 2x4 XL, 4x150 RO. 23 gallons.
    2021 - 77 taps on Shurflo 4008. Sap Sucker 4-D. Mason 2x4 XL, 4x150 RO. 22 gallons.
    2020 - 70ish taps on Shurflo 4008. Mason 2x4 XL. DIY R.O. ~24 gallons.
    ______________________________________________
    Trout Brook Valley
    Weston, CT

  6. #26
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Center, Underhill Ctr, VT
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    To the list of possible issues you could add: musty (generally from filters) or metabolism (from the tree). Metabolism is one of those things you often don't notice much during the season, but it is more noticeable later on. Earthy, musty type of off-flavor. Some associations sell the UVM off-flavor kit so producers can have a reference for what the flavor might be.

    https://www.themaplenews.com/story/o...available/137/ This was the "mother nature" off-flavor kit.

    I believe Mark Isselhardt (UVM Extension) is working on the second kit, which I think was going to be "processing" off-flavors.

    A good description of maple flavors and off-flavors here:

    https://www.ohiomaple.org/documents/...20-%20Copy.pdf
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    CT
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    247

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    I’m leaning toward metabolic changes, probably from sitting in my plastic pails at RT for greater than 2 weeks prior to bottling.

    I will store in stainless, at 35F this year between coming off the evaporator and bottling.

    I will ensure my filters are cleaned more thoroughly.

    I’m also going to avoid the second kitchen boil, except for samples that I want to run through the vac filter (for decorative glass bottles) and just bring up to bottling temp to avoid more niter production.

    With all these changes I’ll take notes and report back with observations.

    I’m hoping to nip this in the bud.
    2024 - 160 taps, Shurflo 4048. Sap Sucker 4-D. Mason 2x4 Raised Flue. 5x400 RO.
    2023 - 121 taps. Shurflo 4008. Sap Sucker 4-D. Mason 2x4 XL, 4x150 RO. 20 gallons.
    2022 - 103 taps. Shurflo 4008. Sap Sucker 4-D. Mason 2x4 XL, 4x150 RO. 23 gallons.
    2021 - 77 taps on Shurflo 4008. Sap Sucker 4-D. Mason 2x4 XL, 4x150 RO. 22 gallons.
    2020 - 70ish taps on Shurflo 4008. Mason 2x4 XL. DIY R.O. ~24 gallons.
    ______________________________________________
    Trout Brook Valley
    Weston, CT

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Middlesex Vermont
    Posts
    655

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    If you have a Christmas Tree Shop you will find you can buy 16QT and 20Qt Stock pots at a reasonable price.
    110 taps W.F Mason 2x3 and two turkey friers for finishing

    2011 expanding to a Mason 2x4 with a blower increasing taps to about 200
    2011 Hurricane Irene rips thru my small sugar bush cost me to lose 20% of taps
    2014 I have reworked my lines for 2014
    32 taps on 5/16 line with check valves
    57 taps on 3/16 line with check valves
    55 buckets with total tapped trees of 144

  9. #29
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Center, Underhill Ctr, VT
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    6,390

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    Quote Originally Posted by bryankloos View Post
    I’m leaning toward metabolic changes, probably from sitting in my plastic pails at RT for greater than 2 weeks prior to bottling.
    Metabolism is a naturally occurring off-flavor. If that is what it is, you didn't cause it. It came from the tree. It could be "sour sap" as well, which would be fermentation of the sap or partial syrup. Totally different thing....sour sap tastes fermented...is kind of "fizzy" on the tongue.

    In any case, good luck in solving the mystery of what it is and eliminating it.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    159

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTimPerkins View Post
    Metabolism is a naturally occurring off-flavor.
    Dr. Tim - when you talk about metabolism - is this the same thing as getting the "buddy" flavor/taste/ whatever at the end of the season? And I think I read somewhere which trees will bud first - reds or sugars - but can't remember which.
    Thanks!
    2017 - 20ish taps on buckets, boiling outside in two baking pans
    2018 - 70+ taps, 14-buckets, 50+ on tubing, homemade arch from oil tank in my barn, 17 gal syrup
    2019 - same set up, 20 gal syrup
    2020 - less taps, short season, but RO kit was fantastic! 6 gal syrup and a maple cat!
    2021/22/23 - expanded into the neighbors yards! 50 taps on buckets and 40 taps on tubing

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