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Thread: Upgrade

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Central Pennsylvania
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    228

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    Thanks RealTreeHugger and Steve.

    So it sounds like Steve RO's and then stores his concentrate to boil "later", whereas RealTreeHugger RO's, essentially, while he's boiling.
    I've got alot variables I have yet to figure out. I have no idea how much sap production to expect from my trees and I have no idea how fast my evaporator will boil sap.

    Over the weekend I was able to clear more brush/vines from around 10 more red maples, so now I'm up to 26 red maples and 21 black walnuts for a total of 50 taps; alot more than I would have predicted a few months ago, but still no idea how much sap to expect. I do know that I have a greater capacity for "cool" storage of sap, than cold/freezing capacity for concentrate storage, so I'll probably start out RO'ing while boiling with a little pre-RO'ed sap to start with.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Berks County PA
    Posts
    118

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    Open water, I also do that sometimes. Sometimes I Ro and freeze Sunday thru Wednesday. Thur and Friday I just store in cold. I then thaw the frozen out overnight Friday into Saturday. Saturday I throw that in and Ro anything I have left including a last minute sap run while I am boiling.
    Steve

    SE Pennsylvania

    2022 - 13 taps, RO5, 21”x24” SS pan with pre-warmer pan, backyard made wood fired 55gal drum stove - 17.25
    2021 - 18 taps, RO5, 21”x24” SS pan with pre-warmer pan, backyard made wood fired 55gal drum stove - 12 pints
    2020 - 13 taps, RO5, backyard made wood fired 55gal drum stove with 2 lg 6” deep pans - 6.75 pints (very warm winter)
    2019 Rookie Season - 14 taps, RO5, turkey fryer with 6” deep pan - 16.5 pints

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Stirling ontario
    Posts
    217

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecolbeck View Post
    ir3333, I would start here and here
    Great info TX!

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Connecticut
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    159

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    Keep in mind that if you start RO-ing, and you end up boiling faster than you can RO, there is no harm in putting raw sap in the pan. Better than burning it. I did that the first time using the RO. After the first time or two of RO-ing, you will figure out the rates that you boil at, and RO at. Then you can see how you can mesh the two.

    let me clarify - I did not burn the pan the first time with the RO, I caught up to the RO, and I had to use raw un-RO-ed sap the first time I used the RO. No biggie, just helped me learn how fast things go.
    Last edited by therealtreehugger; 01-18-2021 at 09:06 PM. Reason: clarification
    2017 - 20ish taps on buckets, boiling outside in two baking pans
    2018 - 70+ taps, 14-buckets, 50+ on tubing, homemade arch from oil tank in my barn, 17 gal syrup
    2019 - same set up, 20 gal syrup
    2020 - less taps, short season, but RO kit was fantastic! 6 gal syrup and a maple cat!
    2021/22/23 - expanded into the neighbors yards! 50 taps on buckets and 40 taps on tubing

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Central Pennsylvania
    Posts
    228

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    If I plan on boiling on a Saturday AM, and RO'ed some "start-up" sap the Friday night before, would I need to do anything with the RO Bucket overnight (flush, clean, etc) if I'm gonna get it running again in 12 hrs or less on Saturday AM? Or could I just shut it down, and let it sit in a cool/cold garage overnight?

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oneida NY
    Posts
    11,547

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    Quote Originally Posted by ir3333 View Post
    Can somebody educate me on a hobby size RO?
    We can best help with advice and ideas if you give us some information. Like tap count, evaporator size, fuel source, available time to boil and do you spend more time than you would like boiling. All of that info would help. I looked at your profile, you show us none of that info.
    Dave Klish, I recently ordered a 2x6 wood fired evaporator from A&A Sheet Metal which I will be converting to oil fired
    Now have solar, 2x6 finish pan, 5 bank 7x7 filter press, large water jacketed bottler, and tankless water heater.
    Recently bought another Gingerich RO, this one was a 125, but a second membrane was added thus is a 250, like I had.
    After running a 2x3, a 2x6, 3x8 tapping from 79 taps up to 1320 all woodfired, now I'm going to a 2x6 oil fired and a 200-425 taps.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Stirling ontario
    Posts
    217

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    Tx mflats...I'm a 3 year newbie...on my 3rd home built evaporator..Current is a 12 x 18 syrup pan with 18 x 48 drop flue sap pan
    50 taps with access to many more but not looking to go bigger. No interest in pipeline and don't mind gathering by hand..i'm retired and need the exercise.
    a nice day is boiling 80 - 100 gallons starting at 09:00 and finishing around 3:00 pm.Hoping my new system will be 15 gph plus?
    Love to learn, build and try new things..a nice way to keep busy in March.
    How do i add to my profile?

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Location
    SW PA
    Posts
    9

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    ir333, I am new to making maple syrup too, but I have looked through RO stuff and think I can provide some help. If you look at "maple syrup RO" online, a lot of what comes up is the Aquatech 8800 booster pump setup. So a Aquatech 8800 booster pump for 100-200 gpd with transformer ($100 on amazon), a 5-micron filter ($65), and then a set a 100-150 gpd membranes ($34 each), emptying into a bucket.

    Anyone please correct me if I am wrong here. 200 gpd / 24 = 8.33 gph. That pump is sized to make/filter 8.33 gallons an hour, but since maple syrup RO is doing it backwards, there is typically a 60-75% efficiency. So you can get 5 - 6.25 gallons of concentrate removed from the raw sap per hour, if you use the correct sized membranes. This would be good if you are boiling off 5-6gph and want to match the RO to your boiling rate.

    If you run (2) 100 gpd membranes in parallel, (2x100gpd == 200 gpd output from the pump), they can give you (2) 50gpd concentrate output. And (2) 50 gpd permeate. You can then run your concentrate lines to a T and a third 100 gpd membrane (2x50gpd == 100gpd) and remove another 1/2 of the water from that.

    I think there's a debate or something about whether to run the membranes in parallel or in series; If each membrane takes out a certain amount of water, and so the concentrate out line is less than the first supply line, you want to match the concentrate out (from the first membrane) to the capacity of the next membrane. I'm not 100% sure, but I'm 80% sure, that you won't be maximizing the amount of concentrate you get from the membranes if you run matching gpd membranes in series. Because each membrane removes water, so the next membrane isn't getting the same supply as the one before it. So a good setup would be 2 membranes in parallel, then a third in series; or 2-4 membranes in series but each one decreases in gpd.
    2021 - first year, planning for 200 taps with a 2x5' flat pan with copper drop tubes

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oneida NY
    Posts
    11,547

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    Quote Originally Posted by ir3333 View Post
    Tx mflats...I'm a 3 year newbie...on my 3rd home built evaporator..Current is a 12 x 18 syrup pan with 18 x 48 drop flue sap pan
    50 taps with access to many more but not looking to go bigger. No interest in pipeline and don't mind gathering by hand..i'm retired and need the exercise.
    a nice day is boiling 80 - 100 gallons starting at 09:00 and finishing around 3:00 pm.Hoping my new system will be 15 gph plus?
    Love to learn, build and try new things..a nice way to keep busy in March.
    How do i add to my profile?
    To add to or edit your profile, click on "my profile" on the top right of the page. In there click on "about me" or "Signature" The about me will only be seen by members who go to your "about me" section the signature will appear at the bottom of every post you make as long as you check the "show your signature" box on the bottom left when you type any post. You shouldn't need to re-check that box, once checked it remains checked unless you uncheck it.
    Dave Klish, I recently ordered a 2x6 wood fired evaporator from A&A Sheet Metal which I will be converting to oil fired
    Now have solar, 2x6 finish pan, 5 bank 7x7 filter press, large water jacketed bottler, and tankless water heater.
    Recently bought another Gingerich RO, this one was a 125, but a second membrane was added thus is a 250, like I had.
    After running a 2x3, a 2x6, 3x8 tapping from 79 taps up to 1320 all woodfired, now I'm going to a 2x6 oil fired and a 200-425 taps.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oneida NY
    Posts
    11,547

    Default

    With that in mind, an RO bucket (or kit) RO will do ok, maybe a 15 or a 20. either will cut the sap volume about in half, at either 15 or 20 GPH. It works well if the RO does it's job slightly faster than your evaporation rate. Then, when the RO is done, you clean it while the boil continues. With either one, you want a permeate (the pure water removed from the sap) tank at 2x the hourly rate, so a 15 wants a 30 gal food grade tank, a 20 gets a 40 gal tank, to hold permeate to use when you clean the RO.
    Dave Klish, I recently ordered a 2x6 wood fired evaporator from A&A Sheet Metal which I will be converting to oil fired
    Now have solar, 2x6 finish pan, 5 bank 7x7 filter press, large water jacketed bottler, and tankless water heater.
    Recently bought another Gingerich RO, this one was a 125, but a second membrane was added thus is a 250, like I had.
    After running a 2x3, a 2x6, 3x8 tapping from 79 taps up to 1320 all woodfired, now I'm going to a 2x6 oil fired and a 200-425 taps.

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