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Thread: Mainline

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Mantorville, MN
    Posts
    49

    Default Mainline

    I have had about 60-70 taps on 3/16 for the past two years on gravity with good success. I would like to run my lines into a mainline to a central collection tank where I can then pump to my shack. Currently I have 9 32 gallon food grade garbage cans that my tubing drains into. I then pump into a tank and haul back to my shack. What starts in about 12-20 inches of snow ends in about 6-12 inches of mud. I would like to save my land, my Ranger and my sanity by having less back and forth trips. I will have maybe a 30 to 40 foot rise in elevation and a 300-500 foot horizontal run. My plan is to elevate high and let gravity help and drain the line.
    So mutiple questions: What will make the best mainline for my situation? What size tubing for pumping back to the shack? What pump makes the most sense, gas operated or 12V?
    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    11

    Default

    3/4 mainline will suit your situation well, I would suggest using purpose made mainline from a maple dealer, black waterline can be used however the plastic is a bit denser making it difficult to work with.

    That slope should be sufficient, mainline should maintain 2% slope to run best.

    As for pumping, a lot of that depends on your individual set up.

    I would suggest a gas powered pump instead of a 12v. Pump and line size is really determined on how fast you want to move the sap, and how far.
    owner/operator, D&B Maple
    Tubing system consultations, installs and repair
    https://www.facebook.com/DB-Maple-110587323841677

    Operator, Fairbanks Maple
    6,000 tap family sugaring operation
    https://www.facebook.com/FairbanksMaple

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oneida NY
    Posts
    10,737

    Default

    The 30-40' rise might be a big problem. To do it right, you would want to pump up that distance plus 2%, then be able to maintain the 2% slope without sags all of the way to the sugarhouse.
    I have seen it done, but it required a series of utility poles, an expense that 60-70 taps couldn't justify. For your case I think draining back to a common tank makes more sense. Also, run your 3/16 all the way to that tank, every foot of drop in elevation is more vacuum. If entering a mainline for gravity flow, all vacuum ends as each lateral enters the mainline.
    After draining back you will have sap setting in the tank, , leave it (to mellow?) or haul it back.
    The cost of just the first pole would be more than all of the year's sap will be worth.
    You are between the proverbial rock and a hard spot!
    Dave Klish about 400 taps, down from much more. Will hold about the same for 2021
    2012 Mahindra 36 HP 4x4/ loader/cab/heat/AC:-)
    3x8 raised flue evaporator
    250 GPH converted to electric, RO by Ray Gingerich
    6.32 KW solar system, 1.48KW is battery backed up, all net metered
    website: www.cnymaple.com

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    11

    Default

    tpathoulas I read your question as 30-40 feet of drop towards your tank over the 300-500 foot run. Is this correct?

    If so your good to go. if not you will have issues as maple flats has said
    owner/operator, D&B Maple
    Tubing system consultations, installs and repair
    https://www.facebook.com/DB-Maple-110587323841677

    Operator, Fairbanks Maple
    6,000 tap family sugaring operation
    https://www.facebook.com/FairbanksMaple

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oneida NY
    Posts
    10,737

    Default

    I read it as the tank would be 30-40' lower than the sugarhouse, is that correct? If not, I'll answer again and correct my error.
    Dave Klish about 400 taps, down from much more. Will hold about the same for 2021
    2012 Mahindra 36 HP 4x4/ loader/cab/heat/AC:-)
    3x8 raised flue evaporator
    250 GPH converted to electric, RO by Ray Gingerich
    6.32 KW solar system, 1.48KW is battery backed up, all net metered
    website: www.cnymaple.com

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SE Missouri
    Posts
    274

    Default

    If it were me, based on my understanding of your description, I would haul in a couple loads of creek rock/gravel so when the snow melts you have a solid base.

    Depending on how high you would have to take that line (I would use 1 inch), I have used old well pipe driven in the ground to elevate mainline as a cheap alternative to posts. It can be a challenge to stand on top of the stepladder while handling a post driver, but well worth it.

    Another thought, I do some irrigation with a 2 inch gas pump necked down to 1 inch to lift water from a spring about 25 feet, and it still has a lot of pressure. I've also been doing some research, and Honda makes a good 1 inch gas pump that would serve your purposes. A little pricey, but it's a Honda, so it should be a one time purchase.
    https://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...5735_200585735
    Last edited by Goggleeye; 01-13-2021 at 02:09 PM.
    Now I have an outdoor hobby for all 12 months. Like I need anything more to do
    500+ taps on gravity tubing, MicRO2 RO, 2.5 X 8 Leader King, and a 1953 Willys Jeep to run around the maple woods with.
    http://www.gihringfamilyfarm.com/

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Mantorville, MN
    Posts
    49

    Default

    Yes, I have about a 30 foot rise in elevation from my collection tank to my sugar shack plus 400-500 foot run. I've been thinking of a Honda10 pump.
    I've also been giving some thought to running my 3/16 all the way to the tank rather than using a mainline. Then, use 1" tubing up tp the shack.
    I'd love to haul some rock in but my sugarbush is a cow pasture for 9 months of the year. It is about 3/4 mile from a road so hauling rock wouldbe a challenge.
    Thanks for ideas

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Thetford, VT
    Posts
    389

    Default

    You can go to the Honda website and check out their pump calculator. Neat tool and pretty accurate. A Honda WX10 has 1" inlet and outlet. Make sure you are using a 1" suction hose....don't starve your pump. The outlet can be different with smaller having more pressure.

    We used to use an electric Wayne pump at three different stations we dumped to when we had buckets and ran to when we started on tubing. We pumped through 3/4" line, maybe 30-35' elevation, and the longest was about 300 feet. It worked. There was sap left in the pipe. Took awhile, but it worked.

    Now we have 2 collection points. Both are 65" or so below the sugarhouse. One is 800 feet away and the other is 1200 feet away. The first one we built was the 800 foot one. We had a 1.5" outlet on the tank so the WH15 (high pressure 1.5") pump gave the best results on the pump select. It was accurate within 1-2 gallons at about 25 gpm real world. We had about 75 gallons of sap left in the pipe after pumping. If it was pretty cool out we would back drain it otherwise we hauled up. We learned more about ordering tanks with a 2" outlet and how much faster a 2" pump moved sap (we have CDL 787 gallon tanks in both places). We ran 2" pump line and use a WH20 at this station. Much faster.

    As above use as much 3/16" as you can to get the vacuum benefit. You'll still have to haul what's left...300' 3/4" pipe has just under 7 gallons of sap in it. Maybe you can go to 1" for less friction loss and have just over 12 gallons to haul. Make sure your pump line is well drained when you are done or you won't be pumping much until it warms up.

    Mike
    Tapping since 1985 (four generations back to early to mid 1900s). 200-250 taps on buckets and then tubing in the mid 90s. 2013- 275 taps w/sap puller 25 gal. 2014-295 taps w/sap puller 55 ga. (re-tapped to vacuum theory) 2015-330 taps full vac. 65 gal, 2016-400 taps 105 gal, 2017-400 taps 95 gal. 2018-additional 800' mainline and maybe 400 new taps for a total near 800 taps. 2x6 Leader WSE (last year on it) supported by a 250 gph RO.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    11

    Default

    I would add the mainline to your collection tank instead of running each 3/16 line to the tank.

    as for a pump line. elevating it off the ground and making sure it drains well when not in use are critical to keeping it functional. with that being said a 2" trash style pump will pump that elevation change no problem. I pump one location 55 feet vertical with a 2" pump on a 2" line without an issue. if you find your pump is not doing it, drop your pump line down to 1". smaller pipe has less head weight above the pump letting it pump higher.
    owner/operator, D&B Maple
    Tubing system consultations, installs and repair
    https://www.facebook.com/DB-Maple-110587323841677

    Operator, Fairbanks Maple
    6,000 tap family sugaring operation
    https://www.facebook.com/FairbanksMaple

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oneida NY
    Posts
    10,737

    Default

    In my experience using a smaller line increases line friction and you will get less flow. Yes there is more weight in the pipe on a larger pipe but that larger line has less line friction. It is the line friction that affects the gpm and the total head (lift), not theweight of the water.
    Dave Klish about 400 taps, down from much more. Will hold about the same for 2021
    2012 Mahindra 36 HP 4x4/ loader/cab/heat/AC:-)
    3x8 raised flue evaporator
    250 GPH converted to electric, RO by Ray Gingerich
    6.32 KW solar system, 1.48KW is battery backed up, all net metered
    website: www.cnymaple.com

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