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Thread: Benefits to gravity? Help me understand

  1. #11
    Join Date
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    Oneida NY
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    I wouldn't wait much longer, as more producers order their supplies inventories can and do get low. I just ordered from Bascom on Jan 2 (Saturday, ordered online late in the day. Order was shipped Monday. I only ordered 200 3/16 hook connectors, 300 3/16 x 3/16 x 5/16 tees, 100 5/16 hook connectors and 300 5/16 cv2 taps. Everything came, from Bascom to central NY in 2 days transit time.
    I normally buy locally, but with Covid I order more online. I still had the rest of what I need, including about 250 drops I made 2 years ago.
    If you are going to run tubing for the first time, you need a fitting for starting at the top tree, a hook or other designed for the tubing to go around the tree and connect back to the tubing. Then for each drop, you need a tap, a tee to join to the lateral and a length of tubing. At the downhill end you can run into a collection tank or if you have mainline, you need a hook connector and a saddle. Another method that can be used for both the top tree and at the bottom is some 1/4" hollow braid rope. To use that tie the rope around the tree, leaving a medium long tail. Then take a ball point pen apart and slide the point end onto the tubing and by pushing only force it up inside the center of the hollow rope. Once in 6-8" poke out thru the side and you have an adjustable Chinese finger to hold the tubing. I use 5/16 taps and drops on every tree, the tees are then 5/16 or 3/16 x 3/16 x 5/16 to connect the drop to which ever size the lateral is. The lateral is the tubing going from tree to tree.
    csk91, I'm not sure any of us gave an answer to your original question, "the advantage of gravity". Gravity never breaks, it runs for free 24/7/365. Those are two more important advantages IMHO.
    Last edited by maple flats; 01-09-2021 at 11:46 AM.
    Dave Klish about 400 taps, down from much more. Will hold about the same for 2021
    2012 Mahindra 36 HP 4x4/ loader/cab/heat/AC:-)
    3x8 raised flue evaporator
    250 GPH converted to electric, RO by Ray Gingerich
    6.32 KW solar system, 1.48KW is battery backed up, all net metered
    website: www.cnymaple.com

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Southern Ohio
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    You will have time to run your tubing. a couple days work and you'll have it. Two hints, if someone hasn't already made them. Make a spooler or at least run some pipe through the spool of tubing and spin it off as you go. Don't try and hold it on your arm and unwind it, you'll have loops and tangles and hate your life. Search threads here for spoolers. Also run all your tubing and then put in your tees and drops. So much easier that way. While at bascombs buy a tubing holder or make one to help with putting in tees, unless you spend the big buck for a tubing tool. A thermos of hot water will help you soften the tubing for tees. Be sure and get several straight repair couplers, you will have leaks and need to make repairs.
    125-150 taps
    Smokey Lakes Full pint Hybrid pan
    Modified half pint arch
    Air over fire
    All 3/16 tubing
    Southern Ohio

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    MA
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    Thank you!

  4. #14
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    Oneida NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeye gold View Post
    You will have time to run your tubing. a couple days work and you'll have it. Two hints, if someone hasn't already made them. Make a spooler or at least run some pipe through the spool of tubing and spin it off as you go. Don't try and hold it on your arm and unwind it, you'll have loops and tangles and hate your life. Search threads here for spoolers. Also run all your tubing and then put in your tees and drops. So much easier that way. While at bascombs buy a tubing holder or make one to help with putting in tees, unless you spend the big buck for a tubing tool. A thermos of hot water will help you soften the tubing for tees. Be sure and get several straight repair couplers, you will have leaks and need to make repairs.
    That being said, just a few years ago, Glen Goodrich used to pull the tubing off his forearm. He said he'd pull 5 loops, then flip the roll and pull 5 more. I never tried it, I use and have always used a spooler. I made my first spooler, then I won a spooler as a door prize at a maple conference and have used that since.
    The spooler I made was simple. I cut a plywood disc about 16-18" diameter. I then drilled 4 holes to hold bolts on CPVC pipe. Those hole were on about a 3.5 or 4" circle. I also cut a smaller disc about 5-6" diameter. That had 4 holes drilled for the bolts near the outer edge and one 1/2" hole dead center for a hanger hook. The holes in both parts matched up. I then cut 4 pcs of 1/2"CPVC pipe and got 4- 1/4 x 12 bolts, 8 1/4" fender washers and 4 lock nuts. The spooler was then assembled, each bolt got a fender washer, then was slid thru a hole in the larger plywood disc. Then a 10" CPVC (1/2") was slid on, and then the smaller disc and finally a fender washer and lock nut. I repeated that 3 more times. Then I had a large hook, on a machine thread rod. That got a washer or 2 above and below the disc, then a lock nut, all mounted thru the center hole in the small disc. That hook was left loose so it could spin, the bolts with the CPVC pipe were tightened.
    I used that spooler for likely 4-5 years before I won a spooler as a door prize. I later gave it to a new producer.
    Last edited by maple flats; 01-10-2021 at 04:49 PM.
    Dave Klish about 400 taps, down from much more. Will hold about the same for 2021
    2012 Mahindra 36 HP 4x4/ loader/cab/heat/AC:-)
    3x8 raised flue evaporator
    250 GPH converted to electric, RO by Ray Gingerich
    6.32 KW solar system, 1.48KW is battery backed up, all net metered
    website: www.cnymaple.com

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Granville, PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by maple flats View Post
    That being said, just a few years ago, Glen Goodrich used to pull the tubing off his forearm. He said he'd pull 5 loops, then flip the roll and pull 5 more.
    I use the same method that Glenn used. I have gone up to 10 loops before flipping the roll over but only when I am working on steeper slopes and fiddling around can make me slip. It works really good.

    I just never had much luck with the spoilers. I would always run out of tubing before my lateral was done then have to walk back down to connect another roll then back up to keep going. With Glenn's method, I just throw a second roll over my shoulder and start up the hill.
    Matt,
    Minehart Gap Maple

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
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    Middlesex, Vermont
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    I think it should be noted that deal with a 1,000' rats nest of tubing in the middle of the woods makes the heart humble. It also makes you realize that going forward, never will I ever mess up a fresh spool, I will in fact treat it like a new born that is extremely sensitive and make my life miserable should I mishandle it

    After watching one of the several instructional videos on YouTube, I actually string out 3/16" on my arm until it's wanting to really twist. I could go as much as 150'-200' before this happens. Because 3/16" is so pliable, I don't have any issues with it binding/twisting and it doesn't seem to have any lasting memory. But as you guys have indicated, a spooler is probably in my future.

    OP, get that 3/16" up, you won't regret it!
    Mead Maple "It's for the kids..."
    Paul Cerminara
    2019 - First season ever
    -Goal: 3 gallons
    -Season Total: 7.5 gallons - pulled taps after running out of firewood and time
    2020
    Built 2'x8' Oil Fired with Thor drop flue pans
    -Goal: 20 gallons
    -Season Total: 55 gallons

  7. #17
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Center, Underhill Ctr, VT
    Posts
    5,381

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    Quote Originally Posted by csk91 View Post
    There is a 10-15 food drop in grade. Is there any benefit to trying to do a gravity set up for 2-4 trees in a run?
    A pet peeve of mine, and I've had some discussions with Tim Wilmot about this, but I really dislike the term "gravity" in this manner of use. What we are really talking about is "natural vacuum" with 3/16" tubing. Gravity sap flow has been used for 50 yrs to describe sap collection with buckets, bags, and more recently, with tubing systems that don't used pumped vacuum. Maybe "gravity vacuum" would work instead of "natural vacuum", but "gravity" alone doesn't fully describe what we're doing.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  8. #18
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    Feb 2018
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    MA
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTimPerkins View Post
    A pet peeve of mine, and I've had some discussions with Tim Wilmot about this, but I really dislike the term "gravity" in this manner of use. What we are really talking about is "natural vacuum" with 3/16" tubing. Gravity sap flow has been used for 50 yrs to describe sap collection with buckets, bags, and more recently, with tubing systems that don't used pumped vacuum. Maybe "gravity vacuum" would work instead of "natural vacuum", but "gravity" alone doesn't fully describe what we're doing.
    I apologize for using the wrong terminology. I am just trying to suck as much juice out of these trees as humanly possible to maximize my yield/ boil time! Haha. I am going to stick with my 36” drops into buckets this year as I a tapping this week and I am not ready. New evaporator still hasn’t arrived. Next year I am going to figure out this natural vacuum thing. I got intimidated by the fitting and tools...

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Nashville, MI
    Posts
    347

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    csk91, you said you were intimidated by the fittings and tools, are you referring to the cost?
    2004 - 2012 2x3 flat pan 25 to 60 taps
    2012 2x3 new divided pan w/draw off 55 taps
    2018 - didn't boil surgery - bought new evaporator
    2019 new SML 2x4 raised flue high output evap. 65 taps
    made 17 gal syrup
    2020 - only put out 53 taps - made 16.25 gal syrup
    2021 - going for 50 bags and 50 on tubing

  10. #20
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    Feb 2018
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    MA
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    No I just don’t know exactly what I need. If money was the issue I’d pick a different hobby. Just haven’t found the right YouTube video or article with pics I guess.

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