1" gas water pump potential

[Crooked Cellars Farm]

Question for the group. I just ran a new 1360' 1" transfer line from the back of my property to my sugar shed with roughly 2-3' of elevation change. We will have a 550 gal bulk tank way out back that will collect sap throughout the day as we work full time. My original plan with this 1" transfer line was to use my 1" gas powered water pump, from Harbor Freight, and "pushing" the sap to the shed. Looking up the volume of a 1" line 1360' long it says it will be roughly 55 gal to fill it. My question is regarding the fact that there will be 55 gal of sap left in the line after I've "pushed" the sap to the shed, causing a potential freeze up and therefore causing me to manually drain this line. I generally get 125-250 gal of sap/day. Do you think if I were to open a valve off the tank at the back of the property, allowing the "head pressure" in the tank to fill the 1" transfer line to the shack and use my 1" gas pump to "pull" the sap and then push that sap into another 550 gal elevated tank? And then do you think it "could" possibly drain that 1" line, at least to the point that my 1" transfer line would not be completely full and reduce the risk of a complete freeze up
Thanks in advance. This group has been a wealth of knowledge for this 1st generation sugarer. Thank you
Dale

[bill m]

I don't think you will be happy with the flow rate you will get with that 1"pipe. There will be a lot of friction loss in that distance. Why not have your pipe vertical about 10 feet then gravity flow back down to the Sugarhouse. That way you only have a small amount of sap left in the 10 foot section.

[Crooked Cellars Farm]

I agree that the flow rate will be low but it's what I had. My plan for next year was to elevate this line to do exactly what you are saying. But I've got to put in poles and run wire as this line is now in my field and sadly trees suitable to tie to are hard to come by up top. I'm also not as concerned with flow rate as much as simplicity and ease of use. I currently have a 6gpm pump, pumping the sap straight up roughly 25', yes 25', and then on a downhill slope roughly 200' to this tank in the field that I'm attempting to pump to the shed. This downhill slope does seem to create a bit of a syphon effect, which is ideal. The 6pm pump is also not the ideal, but again, I'm working with what I have and it is setup to automatically pump. I have a setup from Dave at Mountain Maple that does this for me.

[Crooked Cellars Farm]

I guess the real question is whether or not the pump could "pull" the last 55 gal left in the 1" transfer line, without losing its prime until after that last "slug" of sap is moved out? I will most likely run a small experiment to test with a small 30 gal tank I have and see what sort of success/or lack thereof I have.

[Ultimatetreehugger]

Do you have vacuum in your sugar house? Maybe it would be worth an experiment pulling your sap up with a vacuum pump/ releaser setup?

[Crooked Cellars Farm]

Unfortunately, no vacuum at the shack. Prior to this transfer line I had to take a tractor out back to pick up a 125 gal tank and bring it back to pump into my collection tank. This destroyed my yard. So this idea arose out of necessity to not destroy the tractor and my yard anymore. I wish I had more time today to run my experiment as it was 50+ degrees today. Starting tomorrow looks like rain switching to snow with the possibility of 8" of snow where we are in Ohio Tues.-Wed. Which means we will probably get a dusting of snow. Haha.

[whatever]

It should work for you. if the pump will start to pull the sap when there is enough in your tank for you to start up the pump it will continue to pump until it sucks air which should be when the suction line is empty. Not totally dry but empty enough that you shouldnt need to worry about freezing the line solid,

[TapTapTap]

You should prime the pump if you're sucking on a long dry line. You'll get better suction and less wear on the pump.

[Crooked Cellars Farm]

Thank you for your responses. The pump is not a self priming pump, so I'm hoping I can open a valve at the tank in the field and the "head pressure" "might" fill the line to the pump. And then it will be primed. Then pulling the sap until it gets to air and hoping that it pulls enough sap to not allow for a completely frozen transfer line overnight. I know these pumps are not ideal for this sort of application and are more useful to push sap but I've been pleasantly surprised by my Shurflo pumps and my Jabsco pump so thought I might try this way of using these gas pumps to see if it works. It would just be easier to not have to carry the pump way out back and "push" the sap and instead have it at the sugar shed so I can transfer sap, start my fire, and get things moving all at the same time. Future plans would include elevating this line and maybe a automatic transfer pump using sensors to turn on. All run into a future heated RO room next to the sugar shed. Thanks again, Dale

[bigtreemaple]

Would it be feasible to bury the line so it does not freeze?