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Thread: 3/16 drops and laterals into 5/16 mainline

  1. #1
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    Default 3/16 drops and laterals into 5/16 mainline

    Getting back into the hobby after a couple years absent, Looking to run 3/16 drops into 3/16 laterals to a 5/16 mainline to a collection tank. Two laterals of 300 feet each will have 25-30 drops tied in . Tie in point for both laterals will be at the same point to the 5/16 mainline. The 5/16 mainline will travel a distance of 700+/- ft to a collection tank. 3/16 Drops and Lateral ends to tie in point drops in elevation of 10 feet. From 5/16 tie in to collection point drops in elevation of 25-30 feet. Question is would this be a wise set up to go with?

  2. #2
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    If I understand you correctly, you have two 3/16" laterals that are 300 ft long with a drop of 10' in elevation. That's a 3% slope (10/300=3.3%), which is not really optimal for 3/16". Likely any vacuum created will be lost due to friction in the line, but it isn't terrible....just that the 3/16" isn't going to help you much.

    You then are going to run those two 3/16" laterals with 25-30 drops each into a 5/16" lateral that is 700 ft long with a 25-30 ft drop. Your slope would be OK (30/700=4.3%), but that's really on the high end for number of drops on a single 5/16" line, so you'd likely restrict the flow in the 3/16" lines even more.

    So the real answer depends upon what your goal is. If you just want to collect some sap and don't care too much about yield, it would work, and might be the cheapest way to go. But using all 5/16" might be simpler (since the 3/16" isn't going to do much for you and is harder to keep clean), might get you a bit more sap (less flow restriction), require fewer fitting types, and would be easier to keep clean. If you want to get higher yields, then run BOTH 3/16" lateral lines all the way to the bottom separately. That way you would likely develop a decent amount of natural vacuum (given your total fall in elevation and the fact that all your taps higher up would get vacuum)...ASSUMING you kept it really tight and leak-free. You'd also have to be sure to sanitize and rinse the 3/16" lines well each year.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  3. #3
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    Yes that is correct of what I am trying to do. Would like to get all I can . I can run several 3/16 laterals with about a third of the taps on each lateral if that would yield the result.

    Thank you for your insight

  4. #4
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    As Dr Tim stated, forget the 5/16 and run the 3/16 all of the way to the sugarhouse. You will get more yield. Make it 2 laterals, the 25-30 taps you suggest, then go the full distance to the sugarhouse. With the 25-30' fall in the distance you would have had 5/16 for will get excellent natural vacuum. In the section where the taps are you would get little or no vacuum gain if you then connected to 5/16.
    The big difference is that the air (gases) do not pass the sap in 3/16, but do in 5/16. Thus 3/16 with enough drop gives you natural vacuum.
    Dave Klish, I recently ordered a 2x6 wood fired evaporator from A&A Sheet Metal which I will be converting to oil fired
    Now have solar, 2x6 finish pan, 5 bank 7x7 filter press, large water jacketed bottler, and tankless water heater.
    Recently bought another Gingerich RO, this one was a 125, but a second membrane was added thus is a 250, like I had.
    After running a 2x3, a 2x6, 3x8 tapping from 79 taps up to 1320 all woodfired, now I'm going to a 2x6 oil fired and a 200-425 taps.

  5. #5
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    That is what I was wondering if there would be enough vacuum. So 3/16 it will be

    Thank you

  6. #6
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    I'll jump on this as well. Lets say you have 10 taps on the total lateral of 3/16" and 9 taps have 20' of drop with the last tap only having a 5' drop. Theoretically you still get vacuum for the top 9 taps but no vacuum for the last tap on the line correct?
    Tucker Adams

    2022 - 105 Taps, 58 on buckets, 40 on shurflo, 5 on 3/16 gravity across southern Maine with primary bush in Norway. Aiming for 30 Gallons this Year.
    2021 - 64 Taps in Norway, ME (mostly on 3/16 tubing) - 16 gallons with a 225 gallon sap donation.
    2x4 AOF/AUF Oil Drum Evaporator with Badgerland Pan
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  7. #7
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    Vacuum is proportional to the height from the taphole to where sap exits the 3/16” tubing. That assumes your slope is good enough to counteract frictional forces.
    Last edited by DrTimPerkins; 01-07-2023 at 07:33 PM.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  8. #8
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    The overall drop from the highest point to the holding tank is about 40 feet

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodger View Post
    The overall drop from the highest point to the holding tank is about 40 feet
    At those highest trees you'll get maximum vacuum. At the lower trees you'll get less. This assumes you keep the tubing system very tight (leak-free).

    The article located at https://mapleresearch.org/pub/slope2018-2-2/ will help explain the relationship.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuckeradams2012 View Post
    I'll jump on this as well. Lets say you have 10 taps on the total lateral of 3/16" and 9 taps have 20' of drop with the last tap only having a 5' drop. Theoretically you still get vacuum for the top 9 taps but no vacuum for the last tap on the line correct?
    In practice, the trees at the top (20' of drop) will get about 12-18" Hg vacuum (assuming the system is leak-free and the slope is > 5% so friction is not too high). The last tap at 5' drop will get 3-4" Hg vacuum. Trees in between the top and bottom will get something between that depending upon their position (height above the outlet of the 3/16" tubing).
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

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