Last spring someone posted a 3x400 gpm setup. I've searched throughout the forum and have not been able to find it. Does anyone know that post lies?
400 gpm RO
Last spring someone posted a 3x400 gpm setup. I've searched throughout the forum and have not been able to find it. Does anyone know that post lies?
Maybe it was 400 gpd, many small homemade RO's use a 400 gal/day membrane single or multiples.
Dave Klish, I recently ordered a 2x6 wood fired evaporator from A&A Sheet Metal which I will be converting to oil fired
Now have solar, 2x6 finish pan, 5 bank 7x7 filter press, large water jacketed bottler, and tankless water heater.
Recently bought another Gingerich RO, this one was a 125, but a second membrane was added thus is a 250, like I had.
After running a 2x3, a 2x6, 3x8 tapping from 79 taps up to 1320 all woodfired, now I'm going to a 2x6 oil fired and a 200-425 taps.
400 gpd ro
Yes it was. It was 2 in series and one in parallel. Maybe another site, can't remember. Seems I use the term a lot these days. I may be senior but at least I'm on the right side of the sod. Gotta be thankful for that.
Being a senior is not a detriment until the ravages of time take over. At 73, almost 74 I'm hoping to remain sort of OK for a while longer.
Dave Klish, I recently ordered a 2x6 wood fired evaporator from A&A Sheet Metal which I will be converting to oil fired
Now have solar, 2x6 finish pan, 5 bank 7x7 filter press, large water jacketed bottler, and tankless water heater.
Recently bought another Gingerich RO, this one was a 125, but a second membrane was added thus is a 250, like I had.
After running a 2x3, a 2x6, 3x8 tapping from 79 taps up to 1320 all woodfired, now I'm going to a 2x6 oil fired and a 200-425 taps.
You probably mean two in parallel feeing another in series. The sap would flows through one of two membranes first (the parallel part), then the concentrate coming out of those membranes would feed the third membrane (which is in series with the first two).Originally Posted by wlatrout
Dr. Tim Perkins
UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
https://mapleresearch.org
Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu
Yes, would this be the best use of these membranes? Do you recall an article on how to plum these?
Last edited by wlatrout; 08-23-2020 at 07:50 AM.
I don't recall, but the plumbing should be straight forward. First go thru a pre-filter, then route to the first two membranes, using a tee, so the flow can go to either, enter the housings on the outer ports. Then at the exit, have permeate connected to the center ports on each and on the outer port exit join both using a tee and send that flow to the outer port on the third membrane housing. That 3rd one will then have an outer port exit for concentrate and a center port for permeate. All of the permeate lines can be joined using tees and sent to a collection tank. The last concentrate hose (the outer port exit will the need a needle valve of suitable size to match the high pressure pump you are using. In use, get good flow with the needle valve full open, then close it to regulate the flow from each. Many just try for what looks like equal flow from the permeate (the water removed) and the concentrate. Others add flow meters for a better idea of what is happening. Another added item which some add is a pressure gauge on the concentrate line after the last membrane and before the needle valve. Never restrict the permeate flow, just the concentrate.
Dave Klish, I recently ordered a 2x6 wood fired evaporator from A&A Sheet Metal which I will be converting to oil fired
Now have solar, 2x6 finish pan, 5 bank 7x7 filter press, large water jacketed bottler, and tankless water heater.
Recently bought another Gingerich RO, this one was a 125, but a second membrane was added thus is a 250, like I had.
After running a 2x3, a 2x6, 3x8 tapping from 79 taps up to 1320 all woodfired, now I'm going to a 2x6 oil fired and a 200-425 taps.
That depends upon your goals. In general, a single standard membrane will max out at 4.7X the sap concentration at the stated flow rate (400 gpd processing rate I think is what you said, but this is hugely dependent on your pump pressure/recirculation/sap temperature/etc.). In practice this means taking sap from about 2% to about 8% assuming your system can achieve the proper pressures. If you put all 3 membranes in parallel, meaning they all process sap from 2 to 8%, then you'd get 1,200 gpd from 2 to 8% (again, assuming your system -- pumps, etc.) can handle it.
To bump up the concentration, you need to put membranes in series, so it would first do something like 2% to 8%, then the concentrate from that membrane(s) would go from 8% to maybe 15+% (again, pump and plumbing dependent). If you want to achieve the highest RATE of concentrate production, you'd probably go with 3 membranes in parallel. If you want the highest concentration, you might go with 3 membranes in series, but the flow rates would be very low. For a balance of good concentration level at decent flow rates with 3 standard membranes, then a 2 X 1 (series x parallel) probably makes the most sense. Somewhat depends on your membranes and pumps/recirculation/etc. also.
Last edited by DrTimPerkins; 08-24-2020 at 07:45 AM.
Dr. Tim Perkins
UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
https://mapleresearch.org
Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu
Just a heads up on this topic. I found myself fighting for a faster flow rate. I used 4x 150gpd ro membranes in series. It was super duper slow. I then cut it in half basically. 2 in series x 2... still not fast enough... .so I did the one pass on each from pump to membrane and out with 4 pin pressure needles valves. What I needed to accomplish was - evaporation rate needed to equal processing -evap-rate. I was able to boil so fast my ro couldn't keep up. I'd sometimes not use ro at all. Some trees were giving me 5-6% so i didn't process it through RO. I'm a one man operation so I needed to tilt things to one and done methodology. Just an fyi I tried to keep the flow rates equal water to perm on each membrane. I might take the extra time to process my perm one more time before boiling but again-my starcat evaps so fast... It's almost pointless with only 60 taps. The starcat with blower evaps 11.5 gal per hour. On a good day I'll only collect about 90 gal of sap. On these days I'd be running ro and evaping that as fast as possible but I nearly always had to add sap to keep my boiling going and not burning the pan. Basic thing to keep in mind-evap rate vs ro process rate. I don't let my sap sit around and/or freeze. that's another issue altogether... ro outside will freeze overnight or in an unheated garage.
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