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Thread: Vacuum pump at top of hill?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
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    Default Vacuum pump at top of hill?

    I wasn't really sure how to describe what I'm trying to explain so I drew a picture, like a 4th grader lol.
    20200715_195921.jpg

    So basically my property is mostly flat with a rise in the middle. I have 200 taps on the close side that run into a releaser powered by a gast 1550. It works great. I also have another 200 taps on the far end of the property that slopes away from the first half. My question is can I put another releaser at the far end and ruin a dedicated vacuum line up over the high point. It would have to be 1500 ft long. What size line should I use if it's even plausible. Thanks for the help.
    Jake
    smoky lake 2x4 hybrid pan on homemade arch
    115 taps on gast 1550 pulling 25hg on Bernard releaser
    24x12 sugar house
    2019 Kubota L2501 work horse

  2. #2
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    I think that you would be fine with 1" pipe. Hard to justify anything bigger for 200 taps.
    Nate Hutchins
    Nate & Kate's Maple
    2018 1000 taps?
    20x36 sugarhouse
    CDL 600gph RO
    Franken evaporator, lapierre arch, smokylake pans and a leader hood with pre-heater.
    A wife and 2 kids.

  3. #3
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    At a distance of 1500 feet, you will lose most of your CFM's to line friction in a 1" pipe. I would go to 1 and 1/4 at least. I started out trying to save a few $'sand have gone back and redone. I had one 1200 foot vacuum line that changing from inch to inch and one quarter raised my vacuum at the releaser 3 inches. That is 15 to 20% more sap.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thompson's Tree Farm View Post
    At a distance of 1500 feet, you will lose most of your CFM's to line friction in a 1" pipe.
    I agree. Small changes in diameter compounded over a long distance make a big difference in air transfer capacity. Look up the line loss in the Cornell Tubing Notebook https://cpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/blogs....on-2fpl9ze.pdf and use that information along with the cost of the tubing to make a decision. The labor to install the tubing is about the same regardless of diameter. The only difference is the cost of the mainline compared to the CFM/vacuum level you'll achieve at the far end. If the increase in vacuum justifies the cost (5-7% increase in sap yield per 1" Hg), then going bigger would be worth it. If not, a smaller line is OK.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  5. #5
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    For 200 taps you might get away with 1" vacuum line on most days. Days when the sap is running very well the releaser will trip a lot more and the air won't travel through the pipe fast enough. We used to have a 1.25" vacuum line that went 2000 feet to the releaser in our New Bush. When we only had 1000 taps it was OK. When we went to high vacuum and added another 800 taps the vacuum couldn't keep up and would drop to 15" Hg when the sap was running really well. We replaced that vacuum line with 2" and it works great - maintaining 25" Hg when the sap runs well. I'd spend the extra few dollars and go to 1.25" for your situation.
    4,600 Taps on vacuum
    9,400 gallons storage
    3 tower CDL RO
    3.5'x14' Lapierre Force 5
    Twitter & Instagram: @ennismaple
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  6. #6
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    Feb 2017
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    Richmond NH
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    awesome! Thanks everyone.
    Jake
    smoky lake 2x4 hybrid pan on homemade arch
    115 taps on gast 1550 pulling 25hg on Bernard releaser
    24x12 sugar house
    2019 Kubota L2501 work horse

  7. #7
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    May 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by ennismaple View Post
    For 200 taps you might get away with 1" vacuum line on most days. ...
    Great example. Do you want a system that'll work great when the sap isn't running well, or a system that works great when the sap is running at peak flows.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  8. #8
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    Default

    Just curious. How are you going to bring the sap back up over the hill from releaser #2?
    always on the grow

  9. #9
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    Feb 2017
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    Richmond NH
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    I have an access road so I'll have to drive my tractor down with a tank to collect. I thought about pumping it back to the sugar house but all that line will hold a lot of sap that won't make it back.
    Jake
    smoky lake 2x4 hybrid pan on homemade arch
    115 taps on gast 1550 pulling 25hg on Bernard releaser
    24x12 sugar house
    2019 Kubota L2501 work horse

  10. #10
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    Jun 2009
    Location
    Verona, NY
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    vacuum line size depends on the releaser too. if its a single, they seem to need some more cfms to reset properly, so the 1 inch line is a bit small. id recommend a small double if you can find one, they seem to be more trouble free. 11/4 line us usually pretty cheap from FW webb if youre using it for vacuum line. i believe last time i got it it was .42 a ft.
    2008-2013 30 Taps half buckets, half tubing
    30"X42" pan over oil arch
    2014- 1200 on vacuum, 200 gravity
    2015-2017: 2500 on vacuum
    2018- 2500 on vacuum, 100 buckets. selling sap & helping in saphouse.

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