Do refrigerated tanks do fine outdoors in the weather? I realize they are usually in a milk house. But would there be a problem using them without any shelter?
Do refrigerated tanks do fine outdoors in the weather? I realize they are usually in a milk house. But would there be a problem using them without any shelter?
Tim Whitens
Willow Creek Farm
Fulton, NY
3000 on vacuum, 3hp 3ph Busch pump, 2567 Gast
30X8 Leader oil-fired evap. w/ steamaway
Airablo 1000 RO
6 Alpacas
I assume there aren't any type of tank jackets that provide sufficient cooling capacity. It would make cooling concentrate a lot more practical since you could still use the head tank, with the jacket, which would eliminate the bulk tank and required room. There would seem to be value in a jacket since all the tank capacities and dimensions could be optimized to an individual's situation. I have learned the building around an odd shaped tank which you buy at a great price is not the way to save costs.
Ken & Sherry
Williston, VT
16x34 Sugarhouse
1,500 taps on high vacuum, Electric Releaser & CDL Sap Lifter
Wood-Fired Leader 30"x10' Vortex Arch & Max Raised Flue with Rev Syrup Pan & CDL1200 RO
https://www.facebook.com/pumpkinhillmaple/
The compressor itself needs shelter from the rain and snow but also needs good airflow around it. The tank itself can be outside but it will freeze inside if you get prolonged really cold weather. Other than the agitator motor, there is nothing on them that needs weather protection.
Sugaring for 45+ years
New Sugarhouse 14'x32'
New to Me Algier 2'x8' wood fired evaporator
2022 added a used RB25 RO Bucket
250 mostly Sugar Maples, 15% Soft Maples. Currently,(110on 3/16" and 125 on Shurflo 4008 vacuum, 15 gravity), (16,000 before being disabled)
1947 Farmall H and Wagon with gathering tank
2012 Kubota with forks to move wood around
Ken- I have seen water-holding tanks that had the exterior covered with dense, black foam insulation. I'm sure you could insulate a tank somehow with all the different types of insulation out there.
Tim- Bap is right. They can be outside but unit needs to be out of the weather. My working bulk tank is inside the sugar house and all my raw sap storage-only bulk tanks are outside without any cover. They all have their original lids and covers and I removed the agitator motors and fabricated small covers for those openings. And I put some sealant around where the agitator power cord goes into the tank, just to try and keep any moisture out if I could.
2014 Upgrades!: 24x40 sugarhouse & 30"x10' Lapierre welded pans, wood fired w/ forced draft, homemade hood & preheater
400 taps- half on gravity 5/16, half on gravity 3/16
Airablo R.O. machine - in the house basement!
Ford F-350 4x4 sap gatherer
An assortment of barrels, cage tanks & bulk tanks- with one operational for cooling/holding concentrate
And a few puzzled neighbors...
http://s606.photobucket.com/albums/t...uckethead1920/
I agree that there are many obvious ways to insulate a tank which could help . But insulation alone is not a solution since it might only insulate warmed sap from the RO process from cooling.
What I'm talking about a jacket with a coil attached to a refrigeration system. Then you'll need some type of insulating jacket over the cooling coils.
Ken & Sherry
Williston, VT
16x34 Sugarhouse
1,500 taps on high vacuum, Electric Releaser & CDL Sap Lifter
Wood-Fired Leader 30"x10' Vortex Arch & Max Raised Flue with Rev Syrup Pan & CDL1200 RO
https://www.facebook.com/pumpkinhillmaple/
Alright, I understand what you meant now. The cooling coil would have to be in contact with the tank skin itself. A bulk tank's "cooler" is attached to the bottom third or so of the tank. It cools by conduction/contact. The other way would be to submerge the cooling coil in the sap. There is a chiller tank at work that cools the water that way. And then there are plate coolers too but I have no experience with those.
2014 Upgrades!: 24x40 sugarhouse & 30"x10' Lapierre welded pans, wood fired w/ forced draft, homemade hood & preheater
400 taps- half on gravity 5/16, half on gravity 3/16
Airablo R.O. machine - in the house basement!
Ford F-350 4x4 sap gatherer
An assortment of barrels, cage tanks & bulk tanks- with one operational for cooling/holding concentrate
And a few puzzled neighbors...
http://s606.photobucket.com/albums/t...uckethead1920/
I just picked up a Sunset 625 gallon 100% complete working unit for $1500. I have seen them for less but this will fit and replace my current head tank, an 800 gallon open top tank. I will also have a few hundred more getting it installed. I think this will really help my operation, quick math says it will hold ~100 gallons of syrup at 15% concentrated sap. Even a few less startup and shutdowns a season will really help efficiency.
I only plan on holding concentrate a few days at most if needed due to work. How long are people able to hold concentrate at 8-15% at 30-34F?
2.5X10 HE
600 RO
Vac
That's a great deal! Nice find. You will wonder how you got by without one next season. They are an extremely useful sugaring tool.
The first year mine was up and running, I held 12% concentrate for six days, as an experiment. That concentrate made great looking and great tasting amber syrup. I figured the syrup would be okay but seeing was believing. Good luck with the tank!
Steve
2014 Upgrades!: 24x40 sugarhouse & 30"x10' Lapierre welded pans, wood fired w/ forced draft, homemade hood & preheater
400 taps- half on gravity 5/16, half on gravity 3/16
Airablo R.O. machine - in the house basement!
Ford F-350 4x4 sap gatherer
An assortment of barrels, cage tanks & bulk tanks- with one operational for cooling/holding concentrate
And a few puzzled neighbors...
http://s606.photobucket.com/albums/t...uckethead1920/
Dr. Tim attached a chart on the first page of this thread that shows recommend temperature to hold sap at various concentrate levels. Looking at that chart, I don't believe you would want to store that sugar content sap for very long at that high of a temperature. You should be less than 30 degrees for 8%.
Matt,
Minehart Gap Maple
Unfortunately that is not a simple calculation. Deterioration in storage is a function of sugar content, time and temperature (and starting level of contamination of the sap/concentrate and equipment).
- Higher sugar content means faster deterioration.
- Longer time period means more deterioration.
- Higher temperatures lead to faster deterioration.
In general, you can think of sap (or concentrate) as milk or some other perishable that you keep in the fridge(which is typically about 40 deg F). It'll almost certainly last several days (assuming it wasn't highly contaminated to begin with), but once you get beyond a week or so, you're taking your chances. If it is colder, it'll take longer to spoil.
microbe growth rate by temp.JPG
This chart is a good general depiction of the growth rates of different classes of microbes at various temperatures (note that the scale is in deg C, not deg F). Very few things can survive well at really low temperatures. Those that can handle it can't grow very quickly. The red arrow is the temperature at which we keep our bulk tank. Not much happening at those temperatures.
There is a segment of a presentation I did a few years back on sap/concentrate spoilage as affected by time and temperature at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnan...v&index=9&t=0s That particular portion starts at about 38 min in the video.
We've kept 35 Brix concentrate at 24 deg F for a couple of weeks with no deterioration in quality. Not a lot of microbes will grow at that temperatures.
Last edited by DrTimPerkins; 07-14-2020 at 08:12 AM.
Dr. Tim Perkins
UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
https://mapleresearch.org
Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu